[Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

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MorkelebErmine
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[Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

Post by MorkelebErmine »

BYOND account and character name: MorkelebMink/Azure Shade

Banning admin: Silicons

Ban type/duration (where you are banned from and for how long):Main Citadel server and permanently banned

Ban reason: It's been long enough I don't remember all the details, but as I recall I was banned for enforcing crewsimov at the price of fun? I think? It's been several months like I said. Not the best memory.

Your side of the story: My understanding of current silicon policy ((unless it's changed, i'm basing this on when I last read it)) the crewsimov law set cannot be rules lawyered and HAS to be enforced religiously. Only non crewsimov lawsets can be wiggled around and rules lawyered. So when on crewsimov I enforce it strenuously as per the servers own rules, because if I don't I risk being bwoinked and silicon banned. Ironically I was silicon banned for following the rules too much, at least in my opinion.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I shouldn't be banned for following the rules as written, if you don't want borgs to religiously enforce crewsimov with no rules lawyering allowed . . . well . . ALLOW rules lawyering for crewsimov too. Either way I did nothing wrong as per the standing server rules at the time, Silicons wrongly banned me when his problem is with the server rules not me.

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CygnusB
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Re: [Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

Post by CygnusB »

you have to post the full, original ban reason.
and no, if you think you were banned for following the rules, you clearly haven't learned anything from the ban.
-1

MorkelebErmine
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Re: [Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

Post by MorkelebErmine »

CygnusB wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:49 pm
you have to post the full, original ban reason.
and no, if you think you were banned for following the rules, you clearly haven't learned anything from the ban.
-1
where can I find the actual ban reason again? Notes? I forget how you access notes. And sure that's possible, again I barely remember the incident it's been so long, that was my vague impression from when it happened. That silicons banned me for holding to closely to the rules and making the game 'non fun' or something like that. Once again it's been months and my memory isn't the best by my own admission.

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Re: [Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

Post by Silicons »

this appeal will not be accepted since you continue to completely misunderstand why i banned you in the first place.
we will not change the game for one person when everyone else does fine.
another head admin may override me if need be. this will be moved to denied in 48 hours, otherwise.

MorkelebErmine
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Re: [Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

Post by MorkelebErmine »

Silicons wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:06 pm
this appeal will not be accepted since you continue to completely misunderstand why i banned you in the first place.
we will not change the game for one person when everyone else does fine.
another head admin may override me if need be. this will be moved to denied in 48 hours, otherwise.
Well explain it to me then? I consider myself of at least average intelligence. Enough to understand other people for the most part with a few exceptions. If I don't understand why I was banned perhaps you failed to properly explain it the first time. That is entirely possible.

Why was I banned again if my current understanding is incorrect?

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Re: [Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

Post by Silicons »

alright this is just reiteration of what i said in the ahelps then.
the last straw was you getting into a flamewar on the common radio channel because people were upset with law interpretation.
silicon laws are designed to put them at odds with the crew, usually over harm.
you did it to an unnecessary degree and bad faith'd law interpretation to the point where it was a pain in the ass for other players, and as such, instead of trying to redesign a working role, i banned you from it so you would stop causing a headache, whether by forcing a shuttle call + full console dismantled because a cult existed (that was under control at the time of disassembly) or getting into full on flamewars over radio because you don't think you're in the wrong when you go overboard.

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Re: [Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

Post by Silicons »

original ban reason: "Quality control ban from all silicon roles until further notice: Consistently rules lawyering silicon laws in ways that make everyone miserable. From being a smart-ass over comms calling people out for not understanding laws when said people perfectly were making valid, if slightly (but not over the threshold of silicon policy protection clause) untenable orders, to generally having an awful attitude regarding cyborg behavior, this has gone on long enough. I've personally observed this for about as long as this person has been playing silicons, and at this point I am going to stop assuming everyone else is the problem rather than this person's silicon playstyle. The specific case this round is refusing to obey a law 2 order to stop using common communications, being extremely combative about it. The proper way would be ignoring when it is actually needed, see: law 1 harm, etc etc, instead of getting into a huge shitfest of flinging insults at the crew. At this point it's miserable for everyone involved to deal with you, so it's time to not have you as a silicon. This will not be lifted until you learn to compromise with other players, instead of being flat out intentionally or unintentionally ignorent of the intent of our policies to the point of making yourself a headache to deal with on all ends."

MorkelebErmine
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Re: [Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

Post by MorkelebErmine »

alright this is just reiteration of what i said in the ahelps then.
the last straw was you getting into a flamewar on the common radio channel because people were upset with law interpretation.
silicon laws are designed to put them at odds with the crew, usually over harm.
you did it to an unnecessary degree and bad faith'd law interpretation to the point where it was a pain in the ass for other players, and as such, instead of trying to redesign a working role, i banned you from it so you would stop causing a headache, whether by forcing a shuttle call + full console dismantled because a cult existed (that was under control at the time of disassembly) or getting into full on flamewars over radio because you don't think you're in the wrong when you go overboard.
Silicons wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:17 pm
original ban reason: "Quality control ban from all silicon roles until further notice: Consistently rules lawyering silicon laws in ways that make everyone miserable. From being a smart-ass over comms calling people out for not understanding laws when said people perfectly were making valid, if slightly (but not over the threshold of silicon policy protection clause) untenable orders, to generally having an awful attitude regarding cyborg behavior, this has gone on long enough. I've personally observed this for about as long as this person has been playing silicons, and at this point I am going to stop assuming everyone else is the problem rather than this person's silicon playstyle. The specific case this round is refusing to obey a law 2 order to stop using common communications, being extremely combative about it. The proper way would be ignoring when it is actually needed, see: law 1 harm, etc etc, instead of getting into a huge shitfest of flinging insults at the crew. At this point it's miserable for everyone involved to deal with you, so it's time to not have you as a silicon. This will not be lifted until you learn to compromise with other players, instead of being flat out intentionally or unintentionally ignorent of the intent of our policies to the point of making yourself a headache to deal with on all ends."
Adressing the complaints in order I suppose:

regarding flamewar, people argue over comms all the time, they don't get banned for it, I see it all the time, every shift. Banning someone for arguing over comms is just plain silly.

Next, enforcing laws to a uneccessary degree. Also wrong. Again the server policy as written says crewsimov CAN'T BE RULES LAWYERED. It HAS to be enforced strictly. With ZERO wiggle room. This is not me saying this, that's the silicon policy saying that. Which means you ARE in fact banning me for following the rules AS WRITTEN. Blame the rules not me. I am just following them. Rules lawyering and bad faith is when you try to GET AROUND enforcing laws, NOT when you actually enforce them. Get your terms right. Because I am MORE THAN HAPPY to lay off enforcing crewsimov strictly . . . if THAT is what silicon policy allows. But at the time, it didn't. And as you may or may not recall, cult won that shift and rebuilt the comms console and recalled so they could summon. My direct action would have ensured a crew win if you hadn't have interfered, so I was right there too.

moving on to the 2nd post, you mention rules lawyering which I didn't do, because again, rules lawyering is trying to get around laws, not enforcing them. So you got that backwards. You mention being a smartass over comms again, already addressed that, people mock each other over comms all the time, that's not a reason to ban anyone. Verbal conflict is part of the game.

Your problem is with my 'style' not with any rules I may or may not have broken, which in this case I DIDN'T BREAK any rules. So yes, under the rules written at the time I don't understand why I'm banned. You just copy pasted what you've already said in the past, which was inadequate then as a excuse and is still inadequate now. Because if Harold, who is a massive dick to everyone all the god damn time can get a pass for his attitude 100% of the time, I don't see my occasional ic argument with someone over comms is even A BLIP on the radar.

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Re: [Silicons]Morkelebmink#8396 Silicon ban for enforcing laws to strenuously

Post by Silicons »

no. if you cannot compromise and/or understand the big picture behind all this, then i see no reason to have you back as a silicon.

you're wrong that harold gets a pass for his behavior btw.

denied.

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