[kevinz000] ForrestWick - Warning/Note appeal

[ForrestWick]

BYOND account and character name: ForrestWick - Trace Grant

Noting admin: Kevinz000

Note type/duration (where you are banned from and for how long): Warning strike

Note reason: Warned - As head of security, executed Everoth Everforth as atmos technician for having a flamethrower and 3 plasma tanks outside of atmospherics and allegedly laying bear traps (which let's just assume for the benefit of argument that it was true since I still don't know if that officer knew or not) which is why they got arrested in the first place. Told this is unacceptable judgement as security, considering Everoth hasn't hurt anyone or realistically done anything out of line other than the massive powergaming with the flamethrowers and being suspicious. The station was not in a red alert/otherwise everything going to hell, also told that a far more reasonable way to deal with this would be gulag/demotion/brig time/anything other than actual round removal. Hell tracker and chem them if you want but execution is out of the question.

Your side of the story: We had traitors on board, with one of them flat out admitting to it, telling me dude can I just trade my uplink to you for your gun and reactive armor. After we dealt with that one, the others were relatively quiet. Fast forward a bit and I get a call from an officer saying Everoth planted bear traps in front of the brig, claiming they were armed. I had Everoth set to arrest for it, proceeded to detain and bring him to sec. I began searching him and found his backpack had a flamethrower, power tools, 3 tanks of plasma, and to top it off he was walking around all round with his atmos hardsuit on. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a dude prepping for murderbone. I've been very clear in public about my policy on executions as sec, and packing that kinda gear is definitely on it. So in response to to seeing all this with confirmed threats, I took him to transfer and lethal injected him.

Why you think the note should be appealed: The note is being made in response to something completely justified and reasonable. I have no way of knowing Everoth is an antag or not, and on top of that I've seen at this point enough suspicious behavior to warrant perma. But I have three officers, including myself. And the warden was someone I was not familiar with (and proceeded to use the flamethrower to set his office on fire and die as a result). So I did what felt best at the time, because I've begun to realize perma is honestly pretty garbage and I'd rather have ghost roles opened to me if I'm in that situation 9 times out of 10. Everoth was not an antag as it turns out, and I feel that's the only reason I got noted. Somehow it's not ok for me to do it here, but other sec players can execute over having a chest rig or combat gloves. I've seen people taken to execution for way less, and yet only now, exclusively to me, is anything being done? When my actions were completely reasonable? What even?

There were alternatives, sure, such as gulag or perma, but I've been through both MANY times and I personally don't understand why I ever preferred those. If this was any other game mode, my stance would change, or if Everoth had maybe a spear or stunprod I would've been far more lenient. But this was the type of gear you pack for a hijack objective. I was not in the wrong in the slightest for my actions, and on top of that I didn't break any current rules with it either. Most of the time when I have ahelped being executed as an antag I'm told it's an IC issue and valid. Chase and Sectoiddan have both said as much in the past. yet when I have every reason to execute a guy, I'm being told no by someone who powergames everything under the sun and manages to non lethally detain any threat when he plays sec. Not everyone can do that, and not everyone is good enough to deal with escaped antags, and considering everyone left in the round at that point most likely wanted the round to continue being chill, I did everything to ensure it would remain that way while also preventing future headaches. When you present yourself as being a super lethal person, I'll act on it. You clearly had intent if you packed that gear without something like a blob or xenos running amok.

[Redtail]

I mean, to me the note seems valid. If it was like, loud traitor gear a la a desword or something like that, sure you'd have /much/ more room to talk about executions. However, he was simply an atmos with flamer and fuel. Not good to have and if anything perma , if you had reason to suspect ill of it, and definitely capturing the contraband. You executed someone for simple possession of non-tator items that they should not have had. The note seems valid to me. If Everoth had been seen /actually/ using it and had evidence pointing towards him, sure, that would give some meat to the execution arguement. However, that didn't happen, and you killed someone for simple possession of dangerous items, but not possession of dangerous /syndicate/ items. So, I believe the note's valid.

[ForrestWick]

So basically you noted me for executing a non antag with highly lethal and damaging equipment when I can't know if he is an antag or not. You only noted me because he wasn't one despite me not being able to tell. Traitors can just not buy gear, you have no way to know who is and isn't an ally there.

[HazelBailey]

you have no way to know who is and isn't an ally there.

That's the point. You executed someone for no other reason than 'He's suspicious and has a weapon'. He hadnt used said weapon at any point, hadnt attacked anyone, hadnt done anything that made execution a viable option. If he had been using said flamethrower or been causing other issues that made him a danger to have around, that would be a different story. Instead you executed him just because he had said weapon.

[kevinz000]

You only noted me because he wasn't one despite me not being able to tell.

if you read the ticket you'd know that's wrong

[ForrestWick]

And yet we'll allow sec to execute people over having shit like the revolver or an esword. Or hell, they'll even execute over having an emag. Even then perma is a way shittier option, same as gulag. And I'm not temp brigging the dude when he had all of that evidence on top of him. If he didn't want to get in trouble, he shouldn't have carried all of it. It was all Everoth's fault that it happened. Act like an antag, get treated like one. That alone was acting like an antag.

[HazelBailey]

I cant believe I never thought to do this earlier, but... given you're currently banned from the main server, this will be moved to denied.