[RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Kazkin
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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by Kazkin »

Skraaak wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:06 am
VailTheWolf wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:49 am
Tl;dr, this is a nitpicking salt complaint based on someone doing their job as Security from someone who isn't directly involved or providing logs, and my side of the story is a vice versa extreme backed by their logic to punish lightly then punish harshly on second offense.
If you actually read the thread, you'll find it's quite the opposite.
Can you provide any logs backing up your claims? Much of what you have said is spoken without evidence and the claim that I lied about not informing you during the 3 head arrest is completely and utterly untrue. In fact, Jim Sanders, the officer who was with me during the arrest said this. You were informed of the situation from the start, the claim you didn't know anything is an outright lie. If you want to make the claim I didn't inform you then prove it. But I and the officer with me both remember you being distinctly informed. You failing to listen on comms isn't my fault.

Some of your points are valid, Ahz is very much a power fantasy type character and some of the things you mentioned have been handled already. But to publicly call me a liar without evidence when the other person directly involved from a security standpoint says I'm telling the truth is pretty black PR.
Characters: Momcat RD, Rat monk, Vampire idiot, Giant troll woman.
"History is a set of lies agreed upon."

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Skraaak
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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by Skraaak »

Kazkin wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:13 am
Skraaak wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:06 am
VailTheWolf wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:49 am
Tl;dr, this is a nitpicking salt complaint based on someone doing their job as Security from someone who isn't directly involved or providing logs, and my side of the story is a vice versa extreme backed by their logic to punish lightly then punish harshly on second offense.
If you actually read the thread, you'll find it's quite the opposite.
Can you provide any logs backing up your claims? Much of what you have said is spoken without evidence and the claim that I lied about not informing you during the 3 head arrest is completely and utterly untrue. In fact, Jim Sanders, the officer who was with me during the arrest said this. You were informed of the situation from the start, the claim you didn't know anything is an outright lie. If you want to make the claim I didn't inform you then prove it. But I and the officer with me both remember you being distinctly informed. You failing to listen on comms isn't my fault.

Some of your points are valid, Ahz is very much a power fantasy type character and some of the things you mentioned have been handled already. But to publicly call me a liar without evidence when the other person directly involved from a security standpoint says I'm telling the truth is pretty black PR.
You seem to have had your own communications failures.
Image

But in any case, as I said in our extensive DMs on this issue, that I was not informed, I was not kept up to date in the slightest. Because I would never have allowed the situation to have occurred as it did, and Ms. Fuchs' player can certainly attest to the fact that I was absolutely livid when I learned the scope of what happened. They'll also recall that we were ready to fire Ms. Ahkeen had it not been for the tram coming.

This is in line with what I said about the false sense of reality and competence. People have given up on correcting you because this is all you do, dig in your heels and screech. It's pointless engaging you and your character and it's become a standard way of life to simply work around the trashfire than try to put it out on a daily basis.

As someone once said, Ms. Ahkeen is the kind of Warden/HoS who thinks they're hot shit because they're unironically unaware they're being "valid-hunting shitcurity."

I will not engage this slapfight, as I know for a fact you're just going to spin this into victimhood.

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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by kevinz000 »

I'll respond with something more in depth and to be blunt unless someone talks me out of it a bit more decisive on the issue when I'm not busy but
Why aren't people firing them for this shit

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Skraaak
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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by Skraaak »

kevinz000 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:23 pm
I'll respond with something more in depth and to be blunt unless someone talks me out of it a bit more decisive on the issue when I'm not busy but
Why aren't people firing them for this shit
In all honesty? A combination of factors.

1) Not pissing off someone who is planning on consistently being your boss.
2) The barest thread of IC respect between characters.
3) The blind hope that stern warning #486 will help.

And honestly? Not wanting to stir up more drama on top of everything. Polite, aggressive, subtle, and blatant have done nothing, and the looming specter of "metagrudge" hangs over everyone in several senses.

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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by ForFoxSake »

Skraaak wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:40 am
Ms. Fuchs' player can certainly attest to the fact that I was absolutely livid when I learned the scope of what happened.
ForFoxSake wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:02 pm
Unfortunately that left both myself and the HoS all of 3 minutes before the tram arrived, -[]- robbing us of any chance to resolve the issue.
I played it down in that post to keep it in line with the tone of how I was raising the issue, but for the sake of the record the words I would personally describe Jessica's reaction to the situation are "fucking pissed".

But, if this is such a sticking point of the thread, then I'll go ahead and request the logs for some of these situations. Because even though I'm fairly certain they'll stop exactly none of this argument, I'll personally enjoy reading them at the very least.

Though, if I'm going to be reading through evidence, I'd like you to present some to us in turn, Kazkin.
ForFoxSake wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:27 am
Kazkin wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:51 am
In fact you have an admin telling you that punishing security/command members more harshly is not only okay but preferred. You personally don't agree with what you claim to be the administration teams own preference on how situations are handled.
You're legitimately, unironically claiming that you can do whatever the hell you want because it's admin approved.
-[]-
Is it really encouraged that security members to break SoP as it's written, in order to lay down over the odds charges against heads or other security members?
Nethaufer wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:34 am
I also want to see your full proof on being given the go ahead on being harsher on heads of staff because I'm finding it difficult to believe you were outright given the go ahead to do so.
I want to see who gave you this permission, and exactly what they said.
kevinz000 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:23 pm
Why aren't people firing them for this shit
My simple answer is: I've tried. At least twice. Neither time have I even managed to float the idea before something bigger has come up.
Like, the round ending.

Beyond that, there's also this:
Skraaak wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:40 am
It's pointless engaging you and your character and it's become a standard way of life to simply work around the trashfire than try to put it out on a daily basis.
Fact is, at least once I would have liked to have fire them for simply being obnoxious and difficult to work with, but the bottom line is doing that will make them more difficult and obnoxious to deal with.

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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by kevinz000 »

Another short post on phone (probably one of many becayseof my schedule today): people need to start firing people who are way in over their heads
and refuse to play a team game fasterr instead of tolerate this shit
parodj my spellinv

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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by kevinz000 »

I do agree that the threat of metagrudging in ways that don't elicit clear punishments from staff is higher on rp as opposed to main but honestly eh.

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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by kevinz000 »

Idk why I'm not using edits but I don't in any way mean that this won't be looked into on our end, especially as they a lot of the time don't play warden/officer, I'm just firing blanket statements about this kind of frankly garbage behavior that's been going on for time unending.

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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by ForFoxSake »

Yeah, I'm literally just throwing this post in so that Kev doesn't quadruple post. Holy shit dude.
kevinz000 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:32 pm
people need to start firing people who are way in over their heads
and refuse to play a team game fasterr instead of tolerate this shit
kevinz000 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:42 pm
I do agree that the threat of metagrudging in ways that don't elicit clear punishments from staff is higher on rp as opposed to main but honestly eh.
I totally get where you're coming from, but firing someone takes time, and the amount of time varies a lot.
Hell, I'd say it's inversely connected to round time remaining, given if you try firing something 3 seconds before the tram docks you've probably got more than enough reason to back you up to make it stick no matter how much the other party kicks and screams.
On the other hand, firing someone 5 minutes into a shift is gunna net you 5 hours of dealing with IA over unfair dismissal, no matter how good your reason might be.

In theory you have the ideal solution there. But in practice it's just as much pain as shutting up and bearing it.

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Re: [RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

Post by Snowfield »

I play Aster Aminizadeh, a character who has shared many shifts with Ahzrukhal Akheen as a Security Officer. I participated in some of the incidents mentioned in this complaint thread.

Out of respect for the community and admins who will evaluate this post, I'll disclose up front that Ahz and Aster have a non-exclusive dating relationship. I hope that my fellow community members will trust me to keep my IC and OOC observations reasonably separate, as we all trust those with characters who tangle with Ahz to do the same.

It's true that Ahz is a character with extensive abilities and experience in Exploration, Science, and Security, and she is not coy about letting others know it. Ahz asserts her opinions with what she herself calls brutal honesty. I've yet to hear Ahz lie. This habit is at times refreshing and can cut short the manipulative behavior of others by calling them out on it, but at other times it antagonizes people who are already in fight-or-flight mode and drives them to double down on a confrontational position.

I enjoy playing with Ahz first and foremost because her strengths - physicality, experience, and directness, complement Aster's aversion to violence, fresh outlook, and diplomacy. They make a good team.

Nevertheless, I've seen Ahz straining to de-escalate situations with people who just won't have it. In the incident with Kal, for example, Ahz concluded that the best way to resolve the situation was with warnings to all parties: Cassie to lay off the bean-bag gun until she learns better trigger control, and Kal to avoid getting into insult exchanges with a barful of frontier station crew in the future. I spent 30 minutes with Ahz and the HoS going back and forth with Kal to just accept the warning and get back to duty. After a half dozen efforts by Ahz and the HoS trying to resolve the matter with just warnings, Ahz finally threatened 'maximum punishments', which for the charges at hand were small fines. For our efforts to de-escalate, during the tram trip Kal called Aster 'a whore and a traitor', and called Ahz worse.

I'm sure that there are Wardens and Commanders who would try as hard to avoid being a hardass in this situation, but I've not yet seen a similar display of restraint by a Security leader. I don't dispute that others have had different experiences with Ahz. But the Ahz that I know is a complex character who can exhibit behaviors ranging from astonishing hubris to zen-like patience.

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