[RP] Kazkin - Unfair Brigging, Failure to Follow Chain of Command and Lack of Cooperation With Other Players

[Skraaak]

Your own self-admittance was that you went security to clear out the shitcurity, yet have become the textbook example of an officer that takes the law to the letter without realizing that context matters more than anything, and so does team coercion and trust.

It seems the means to this ends is by way of driving everyone away from Security.

I reiterate.

As someone once said, Ms. Ahkeen is the kind of Warden/HoS who thinks they're hot shit because they're unironically unaware they're being "valid-hunting shitcurity."

[Kazkin]

After some consideration about what was posted in the thread, and some of what I'm saying here was posted in the thread. I think some of the criticisms are certainly valid. Ahz is toeing the line of power fantasy, while I don't not think it is as absurd as some make it out to be, I certainly agree that she is up there with being too widely skilled and confident. It's an ERP server, my preference is strong powerful women, that however does not excuse that over time she has become detrimental to my original intentions. The thread as made me reconsider my approach, both with how Ahz presents herself, how she conducts herself, and her skill set. I'm definitely going to be making changes to her character for the betterment of the server. While I want to retain her as HoS because I do feel she is ultimately a good fit, adjusting my approach will make things far smoother and better for the server at large. Specifically with more consideration for charges when dealing with security officers or heads of staff and keeping people above and below me more well informed. Mistakes have been made, but with time and effort I feel it can be fixed.

[Skraaak]

While I want to retain her as HoS because I do feel she is ultimately a good fit, adjusting my approach will make things far smoother and better for the server at large.

I do want to note that it was the shift to HoS that inspired this complaint to come to be anything more than private grumbling. It's not our place to tell you what to do, and if you are serious about putting in an honest effort, I think stepping a bit back from command and/or security willingly and temporarily will alleviate a number of people's concerns and help us rebuild a more mutual trust and respect to go with your improvements.

It was never about "ban he", and as a number of us have said, we like to think of you as a friend. A very stubborn one, but none the less. If you take real steps for improvement, I think everyone here would be happy to put this all behind us. Of course, I can't speak for everyone, but I'd like to think we're not all the sorts to hold a grudge when someone is serious about becoming better and improving the server and community. And I know you of all people see yourself as a respected member of the community, which is something we can both agree on.

I don't hate you, Kaz. I never wanted any of this to be a shit-slinging festival.

[Allakai]

It's not our place to tell you what to do, and if you are serious about putting in an honest effort, I think stepping a bit back from command and/or security willingly and temporarily will alleviate a number of people's concerns and help us rebuild a more mutual trust and respect to go with your improvements.

I feel as though this would be my agreeing point as well given that this entire complaint HAS resulted from Ahz being in Security. While certainly it was a slow boil with her character it really only burst from the overly broiled tea-pot because of her being a warden then becoming HoS when she has been established as an RD/PF.

Again restating what I have said once, possibly twice, I want to see Ahz improve as a character.

[kevinz000]

Hey I was too busy and went away for too long and someone else will probably be wrapping this up real soon(tm) so I'm gonna just point out one thing
The three screenshots.
Two of them are from main staff who never touches the RP server. I'd like to know if they were said in direct response to an ongoing rp server discussion, or if it was just cherrypicked from chat logs, because as someone who has played with them both I'm not sure their messages would be applicable for the head of staff situation, as I hope we do understand that our standards for security/brigging are extremely different on main and getting charged for derilection as a head there is ... not something that happens unless you unironically fuck off into space to explore or break the world's record for incompetence, rather than going out to do a rescue mission outside the station. Similar things apply for most head of staff actions on main and player actions as well, what is said in main space law re: sentencing when someone fucks up hard enough to actually get arrested shouldn't be automatically applicable on RP where it's more of "if you fuck up ever you should expect a potential arrest".

[Izzy]

As this comes to a close, I'd like to resolve some thoughts on a few topics, providing closure on them from an admin perspective. These few points will not come close to perfectly matching the examples brought up here, but should serve as a basis to build a better understanding of what we expect, as admins. Don't take any of these points as direct attacks to past events, however relevant they may seem. Instead we all should use them to play respectfully in the future.

When we say that we hold heads of staff to a higher level of expectations than crew, we mean it as an out-of-character expectation of their ability to roleplay in a game. This does not equate to an in-character need for heads of staff to follow every rule and regulation to the letter. Corporate Regulations and Standard Operating Procedure are roleplay aids, not hard server rules. While security are in-character meant to enforce them, there should be no out-of-character motive for being nonuniform harsh. If heads of staff aren't roleplaying to the level of expectation we desire, it's an OOC issue for admins to resolve, not an IC issue for players to attempt to resolve.

The chain of command, and player interaction that comes with it, is an important roleplay aid. This isn't a single player game. We expect players to interact with each other, use the setting and other character relations in a way that makes sense, to play their role ("roleplay"). If our goal was to create a game where one or a handful of players made all the calls, handled all the situations, and knew all the information, we'd be playing a tabletop RPG, not a large scale open corporate space station job simulator. Similar to the above point, it's necessary to understand that heavily breaching the scope of roleplay becomes an OOC issue instead of an IC issue. Talk to each other, have some level of trust in the roleplay environment, and understand the place of your role and how it interacts with other roles.



To Kazkin, since many of these posted incidents weren't brought up to admins in a timely manner, it's difficult for us to take any direct action other than outlining our expectations in the future. I urge you to take a step back and take the considerations of your fellow players seriously. Even if there's no perfect proof or evidence of some tiny argument detail out there, you need to put ego aside and understand that there's some pattern of play here that's hindered a significant amount of your fellow players' enjoyment of the game. We appreciate your willingness to begin making changes, and hope for your cooperation in any that may come up in the future.

To everyone else, while we appreciate that the issues are being brought up in an official place, a complaint thread is probably the worst place to aggregate information to have a significant effect. Admins rely heavily on timely adminhelps, so that information can be collected as it happens, and so that no back and forth bickering about accusations and proof is needed. We urge you to bring up OOC issues with admins instead of holding them in, or trying to handle things only in-character. If an issue affects you out of character to the point of not wanting to play the game, it's long past the point of needing to be brought up to admins. We hope that the issues between players presented here can be resolved peacefully between those players, but as far as on the admin side of things, the above points and a notice that we're up to speed on the situation and ready to receive future adminhelps is what we can provide.

If there's any final questions regarding admin decisions on general topics related to the complaint, as well as quick response to Kevinz's question, we'll be here to answer them. But as for discussions bringing up events and requests of proof, I'd say we've hit a dead end with that.

[ForFoxSake]

I think between the shift in tone in this thread and Izzy's post, everything I've personally wanted to see addressed has been addressed. Though I can't speak for everyone.

We urge you to bring up OOC issues with admins instead of holding them in, or trying to handle things only in-character.

This point in itself is going to have to shake up how I play Alyona a fair bit, but I'll certainly do my best to stop treating everything like an IC matter, especially for persistent issues.

a complaint thread is probably the worst place to aggregate information to have a significant effect.

While I understand where you're coming from here, I believe this isn't the worst place place. At the very least, this conversation is public now, and at the very least, isn't about to disappear in a puff of smoke.
If nothing else, everyone involved should remember this.

And, I think that wraps up about all I can say on this subject.

[snow n' chrysanthemums]

Snip

It's really weird how you immediately cherry pick a conversation for screenshots but conveniently leave out the part of not only them saying they've never seen me demote someone but me explaining I haven't ever even tried to demote someone as security. See the attached photo.Rocket 1.PNG

Do not put words in my mouth. I simply said I faintly recall something of which would be considered hearsay because I couldn't remember the exact round id, date and time of the incident; nor could I provide sufficient evidence to satisfy the burden of proof. I am certain of the event happening in question, I can simply for the sake of evidence remember the time and place since it was so far ago I cannot justify using it as evidence of anything.

The three screenshots.
Two of them are from main staff who never touches the RP server. I'd like to know if they were said in direct response to an ongoing rp server discussion, or if it was just cherrypicked from chat logs, because as someone who has played with them both I'm not sure their messages would be applicable for the head of staff situation, as I hope we do understand that our standards for security/brigging are extremely different on main and getting charged for derilection as a head there is ... not something that happens unless you unironically fuck off into space to explore or break the world's record for incompetence, rather than going out to do a rescue mission outside the station. Similar things apply for most head of staff actions on main and player actions as well, what is said in main space law re: sentencing when someone fucks up hard enough to actually get arrested shouldn't be automatically applicable on RP where it's more of "if you fuck up ever you should expect a potential arrest".

I was given information that there is no 'official distinction' between RP and main admins. Would it not be wise to actually delineate the rulings that affect separate servers (yet still let admins jump on either in an emergency)? Unless Izzy wants to step back in and reverse precedent (or correct my error)?

I've been a bit ill these days so please excuse any parts that don't make sense.

[Izzy]

There's no official distinction between Main and RP admins, but the way we conduct our administration of either server is different. You can easily get any admin to agree with a best-case scenario hypothetical situation presented surrounding memes on Discord, but that doesn't mean that they fully understand the context of your situation, or the implications that a short phrase that has much different effects on a server they're not entirely use to.
Admins indeed hold heads of staff to a higher standard when administrating both servers. What that means on each server varies, but what it doesn't mean is that players should forgo roleplay to punish heads of staff solely because of this OOC distinction. If a character acts to the point where you believe you need to teach their player a lesson, then you need to bring it up with admins, not handle it yourself.

[ForFoxSake]

As Izzy's first post had been made several days ago, I'd brushed this thread off as locked and forgotten about. It probably should be, however I feel this is some important information to throw in before it comes to that.

In the last round happening prior to this very post, I had to send an adminhelp about Ahzrukhal's behavour as Head of Security. As I'm here decompressing after that incident, I feel that round in it's entirety serves as a perfect example as why this thread came to exist in the first place.
I trust that the issue is being handled on the administrative side of things, so I won't go into it in this post. But I'm alarmed that this thread hasn't even been locked yet and issues are already coming up.

I just felt this needed to be here, and on the record, before this thread is closed and forgotten about because this situation is not inspiring confidence in me, currently.