[Main] MrJwhit - Spawning in Stargazers on an Extended Shift

Nik707
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Re: [Main] MrJwhit - Spawning in Stargazers on an Extended Shift

Post by Nik707 »

I'm just gonna toss up a snippet from the admin policy
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ForrestWick
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Re: [Main] MrJwhit - Spawning in Stargazers on an Extended Shift

Post by ForrestWick »

Peanuts from me when I wasn't in the round but got the context after:

If your first instinct at someone screaming stargazers is to cryo, unfortunately that isn't a fault of Justin in this case. As he and Putnam said, it's a failing of the gamemode, but its also on you as a player to be smarter about your reaction to calls of stuff like flashes or runes. On citmain, it's all too common for people to go gamer mode just because shit like that is called out and then have it be pranks. That's why the pranks even happen.

Other servers don't have this issue nearly as bad. Even fucking Bee doesn't have it as bad as Citadel. That should be raising alarms in people's minds. Hell, Bee MRP even has an enforced rule where if your first instinct with antags potential or otherwise is to wordlessly lethal on sight without good reason, you can face punishments for it.

It isn't a failing of Justin to try this. He had a reason, he wasn't bombastic with it, he was just very quiet and made sure to go through proper channels to set this up. The issue is a pack of forethought and willing to at least be sure it isn't a prank on other people's part, as it is a failing of the game mode for being repetitive and drawn out.

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Putnam
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Re: [Main] MrJwhit - Spawning in Stargazers on an Extended Shift

Post by Putnam »

MrJWhit wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:13 am
(as it happens the can_reenter_round variable has been changed into a datum that I had to do some digging to find and adjust from there)
Oh, uh, sorry, that's my bad, I should probably add better admin tools vis a vis elements for this purpose

skasthi
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Re: [Main] MrJwhit - Spawning in Stargazers on an Extended Shift

Post by skasthi »

Just gonna put in my two cents if no one minds, there are some issues present that are reaching further than just one admin, and is part of something i've noticed for a while as the servers been growing in popularity, and tg/para have been shedding their players(to us). I'll give a bit of a tl;dr up here, and longer explanations below(and i'll probably edit anything i think of into it). and we have to start asking ourselves what kind of personality we want the server to have by the players we keep and rules we have, and how we interpret them.

TL;DR antag orientation tends to discourage rp, and we become just any other server and alienate long standing community members by forcing antag rounds that can make non isolated/group based roleplay hard to impossible. you need to be careful not to alienate everyone by actions that aren't fully thought out(like arbitrary/wide rules or interpretations, or admins turning greenshifts red/making people thing there's a threat when there isn't).

okay so, the servers slowly been growing in popularity, and as it's done so it's(in my opinion) started to lose it's unique high/mid rp quality(mostly during highpop), something no other server has, in my opinion come close to. it is also in my opinion that no one really knows what mrp is, and we mostly make it up as we go along. MRP stands for medium role play, and is generally known(in my opinion) as a state of roleplay being encouraged, but not being particularly forced onto people, or into a particular level of quality. as we've been gaining "refugee's" from other servers we've been bringing with them their cultures, wants, and play-styles.

on one side we got people who tend to prefer quick, low rp antag oriented rounds that are generally done in under an hour(or even 40minutes), and are used to enjoying very free antag rules(i think free antags are a good thing). it has been my experience that players who are used to very antag focused rounds quickly devolved to players instead of taking the reprive for longer more involved roleplay to uhm... well, start grey-tiding and throwing things around/starting shit when nothing interesting(antags) happens, all in all, a very low to no rp situation, this leads to admins having to deal with ridiculous levels of shit during extended rounds, and often leading to them being delayed for excessive amounts of time(can admins not move their sits to discord or something when this happens?), the admin team(in a few peoples opinions) has come to a precedent of forcing antag based rounds during extended as a way to avoid all that shit flinging(which imo is a terrible way to handle it as this encourages further misbehavior). in antag rounds these players generally bomb the shit out of things and indiscriminately kill people, and disrupt role-play

on the another side we have players, who generally dislike freedom of antags(yet often seem to have the double standard of complaining that antags muderbone them as they attempt to valid-hunt said antags, or happen along the wrong area at the wrong time) in antag rounds these people often see antags as something to be effortlessly crushed or hunted aggressively(often to the point of disrupting roleplay)

on the third side of this triangle we have people who just want to roleplay who end up getting crushed between the two, either because all the rp hubs get blown up/set on fire, or because they've now been drafted into a militia/cult/revolution/gang and now are expected to be involved, or some bored person starts shit, regardless of what their original intents on how to have fun were.

When you have extended rounds all the people that wanted to be in an antag oriented round cryo, disconnect, or force themselves through a slow boring rp less round.

when you have antags the people that wanted rp cryo, disconnect, or attempt to rp in hopes they dont suddenly blow up, get converted to cult/rev/gang, get fire-balled by a wizard, or get gunned down by sec when they assume your maint hideout is a cult/gang/rev base.

when you force antags/have antags happen during green rounds because of arbitrary rng all the people that expected a calm round suddenly have the work and build up they've gone through during an hour or two thrown out the window as both of the above happens, and the server suddenly depopulates because both groups left for greener pastures.

We've had two servers in an attempt to separate the crowds, low/mid on one side, and the rp group on the other, problem is without anything going on on the rp server(and the entirely separate code bases which make it hard to maintain), it eventually gets boring and depopulates and turns into small "meta" groups that are near impossible to get in unless your good at roleplay(and you might not be able to be get good if you dont have anyone to roleplay with), and we all know you cant roleplay with no one to roleplay with, so the rp crowd has slowly gone back to main. and if people try to do anything on the main server, things are often too short to have any interesting roleplay go on, and that's if you don't get blown up/converted/mistaken for a cult in the first place.

You wont be able to please everyone, It's a vicious self inducing cycle, i'd suggest how to break it, except i don't really know how, and that discussion is for another place.

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HazelBailey
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Re: [Main] MrJwhit - Spawning in Stargazers on an Extended Shift

Post by HazelBailey »

I think Justin explained his point fairly well here, and I do not at this time believe that anything he did was unbecoming of an admin, especially given he attempted to make things right after people cryo'd out specifically to avoid the supposed clockcult.

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