[Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

OmegaBlep
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[Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by OmegaBlep »

BYOND account and character name: OmegaBlep

Banning admin: I was banned from two jobs. Both Captain and HoP, HoP was done by Captain227 and Captain was done by Cataclysmanic

Ban type/duration (where you are banned from and for how long): Banned from two jobs on the RP server for 2 weeks.

Ban reason: It started with HoP. I had a couple run ins with Masi, the current Warden, who I butted heads with a bit because we are both a bit stubborn. There was a situation where Masi reported that there was a potential Arms Dealer aboard the ship. I was sent a PDA message by Masi about it, and the legality of searching a person's bags, to which I responded they have to have very clear evidence, and had to make sure to not do it in the open. I was wrong in that situation, and realize that now, after a conversation with a CCO and Masi. However, during that, Masi asked me to come assist by Quarantining the area and help search, which I did. Upon doing that, I went and got to the Holodeck, where the "Crime Scene" was, and saw two bags lying on the floor. Assuming that was what she meant, I started to search them. However due to miscommunication, that was not the case, and I upset Masi in the process. We exchanged words, and I threatened to demote her, which is where we called the CCO. They came and dealt with it, and I told Masi to just leave me alone for now, because we weren't getting along. After that, we did, and I referred to everything where security was needed, directly to Security, and didn't do their job. From then on, the only job I would handle, was Barkeeping and Janitorial, when there was absolutely nobody to do either jobs, and they needed someone to at least do them. Not much else happened aside from one scenario where Trenton snapped at me over the radio for a simple comment, to which I asked her to never do that, and just come to me directly with issues, and another where two engineers got into a Cussing and screaming contest in front of two CCOs, which I took the chance later to pull one aside and politely asked them to never do that again, mainly because I wouldn't be able to defend them if they took action. However, apparently, according to the admins, I had done a lot more than that. Here's the banning notes:
Exhibited a consistent pattern of Misconduct as the head of Personnel (Exceeding Official Powers), and general red flag behaviors. When consulted regarding the concerns, remained largely dismissive of the discussion and frustrated the proceedings, The recommendation that they play a lower-priority role (ie Bridge Officer) to learn the standards expected of an HoP was offered at least twice. Both times, they declined and insisted they would continue to play as the HoP. This is a Permanent ban from the HoP position, appeal it in two weeks, after you've taken time to observe the job from the outside. EDIT: Also going to be removing the FD/Captain position. It really should've been removed to begin with, and after some discussion, the banning admin (Captain227) agrees. -Cataclysmanic

Your side of the story: I have no idea where this is coming from, or why I deserve this, but here is my side of the story. Firstly, I was given absolutely zero examples as to how I had overextended, and abused my rank. Even when I asked very nicely, multiple times. I asked for examples, and the response was "There are no specific instances, but we just know you've been overextending, and you need to chill out." That's when I responded with "Okay, but I would like to learn from my mistakes, and I can't learn from my mistakes with such a broad, blanketed statement." Then they didn't comment on it further, and instead switched to the topic of doing other people's jobs. Again, the situation with Masi was solved, and we even made amends with each other, wanting to let things be in the past, and move on as friends. So if that isn't taking action as a responsible FD, I don't know what is. As for talking with the admins about the position, they gave me the suggestion that I play a lower class, or if I wanted to help, to play Captain or Assistant, to which I politely declined, stating I enjoy the positions, and believe I will do very well in them, I just need the chance to improve. I wasn't warned about being banned if I didn't, especially not permanently.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I feel like the decision is just waaaaay too harsh for the "Incidents" that were brought to my attention. I feel like I should have at least been given the chance to prove that I learned from my mistakes before I was completely and permanently banned from both positions I genuinely really enjoy playing. In addition, I am not disliked on the ship. Most of our regulars know who I am, like me, and some are even confused as to how I abused my powers, because they haven't seen it. I am pretty sure only one person on ship actually dislikes me, but most of the ship dislikes them because they're a crazy bartender with a habit of being inherently annoying. I just feel I am being hit with the maximum punishment possible for the job, for a very minimal problem that can be solved by literally just telling me "Don't do this again please."
Also, this is on the RP server. Did I mention that? Not the main. So I don't understand why maybe 2-3 tiny scenarios, that didn't hurt anybody at all, and I just accepted fault for my actions and moved on, are warrant for me being banned. Isn't playing on the RP server meant for me to not have to worry about being serious about Gameplay, and focus on getting in some good Roleplay? If so, why am I being hammered so hard for something so simple?

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Captain277
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Re: [Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by Captain277 »

Forums are still glitched for me, so I'm typing this on my phone. Consequently it's bound to be shorter than average, so expect brevity.

1. You were given examples of what powers you were exceeding as the HoP multiple times throughout the ticket. You refused to acknowledge them.
1a. At one point you acknowledged that I had personally supplied you with examples of what was considered poor conduct.
1b. Twice I laid out in explicit detail what departments you had direct authority over, and the measures you would be expected to take outside of those standard Chain of Command duties.
2. You will notice in my ban note that I said the following: "remained largely dismissive of the discussion and frustrated the proceedings". This is in reference to the following:
2a. While Kevin was addressing you to get your side of the incident, you proceeded to ignore the ticket and attempted to deflect, in an effort to perform a non-essential task.
2b. This non-essential task being: Meeting up with a miner and scientist(?), gearing up, and escorting them to the mining belt to literally babysit their shuttle. You were the ranking Head of Staff on board at the time. Not only was this all done while you were actively in the middle of a discussion with two admins, it was also a violation of the expectation that Heads of Staff remain on board their workplace at all times. You attempted to deflect again by stating that nothing needed your attention on the station, which is missing the point of the policy entirely.
3. You are completely ignorant of HoP policy in general, based on how our conversation went. You described the HoP's duties as including a nebulous need to provide "help". I told you to play an Assistant if you wanted to just go around helping everyone. When again your duties were explained, you ignored the majority of the response and tried to redirect the conversation in another direction.
4. Throughout this process you seemed to almost intentionally ignore what we were saying to you, and hearing only what you wanted to hear. Nothing in your appeal suggests to me that you have reevaluated the conversation.
5. As stated in the ban notes, I recommended to you multiple times that, due to your fundamental lack of understanding regarding the duties and responsibilities of the HoP role, you should step away from it and work as a Bridge Officer to see how other players approached the position. You rebutted me by saying you 100% would not do that and were intent on proving me wrong. I suggested it again, much more insistently, and you responded the same way. Right then I began the jobban process, and the server crashed.
5. This is far from a harsh punishment. I'm sure you can be a good Head of Personnel, but I have zero confidence that you understand the position as it stands.
5a. This isn't a popularity contest.
5b. This is, as you keep saying, the HRP server. You are being suspended from a job that based on your actions you do not seem qualified to perform at this point in time.
6. I recommend you just take the two week break and familiarize yourself with the role from the outside. This is the third time I'm suggesting this, and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. This ban is meant to clarify my original statement that you need more time shadowing this job. In fact, I originally left you unbanned from Captain as a show of good faith. I have received complaints already today about your conduct as a Captain that led to me authorizing the expansion of the ban.

I am personally against lifting this ban. Especially when you're exhibiting a total refusal to consider why you received it to begin with.

OmegaBlep
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Re: [Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by OmegaBlep »

Wait, so what conduct have I done today as Captain that includes me abusing my position? Because as far as I know, everyone I have talked to about this, is confused as to how I am not doing well in either of these positions. And please don't do what Kevin did to me and just say that I did things people didn't like. I haven't had a single run in with one person today, except one person, who was fired, and I didn't even do the firing.

Cataclysmanic
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Re: [Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by Cataclysmanic »

You were banned from CD and HOP due to your refusal to learn. The mistakes you made were minor to moderate, yes. But because people complained (No matter how few), we had to address you for those mistakes. People mess up, people learn from them. It could have ended with a warning, and a suggestion to take some time off. However, given your certain refusal to take time to learn via bridge officer, or ghosting...

Which captain suggested twice, and you refused
Admin PM to-OmegaBlep/(Omega Thurisaz): There are plenty of good HoPs to watch. I, one last time, gently recommend you take my advice.
Reply PM from-OmegaBlep/(Omega Thurisaz): I apologize, but I refuse, one last time. I don't give up so easily. I believe I can do good.

And not to mention your dismissive attitude toward administration
Image

Such an attitude is not something we take lightly. Especially when we're trying to help you. The fact that you're still going on about this after I've told you in black and white EXACTLY why it was pushed last round in of itself explains why it shouldn't be appealed.
Image

This could've been simple. This is not a popularity contest, this is not abuse. This is us dishing out a punishment due to your refusal to acknowledge your mistakes, and your refusal to learn.

I will not be supporting this appeal.

Cataclysmanic
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Re: [Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by Cataclysmanic »

OmegaBlep wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:49 am
Wait, so what conduct have I done today as Captain that includes me abusing my position? Because as far as I know, everyone I have talked to about this, is confused as to how I am not doing well in either of these positions. And please don't do what Kevin did to me and just say that I did things people didn't like. I haven't had a single run in with one person today, except one person, who was fired, and I didn't even do the firing.
And your banning from captainship today was my remedying of a stipulation. If you're not allowed to act as HOP, it's only fair you shouldn't be allowed to be their superior.

OmegaBlep
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Re: [Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by OmegaBlep »

I am sorry, but now I am confused, because you two are now contradicting each other.

Cataclysmanic
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Re: [Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by Cataclysmanic »

Explain how we are contradicting one another.

OmegaBlep
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Re: [Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by OmegaBlep »

Captain bans me for my "Behavior" as FD: 6. I recommend you just take the two week break and familiarize yourself with the role from the outside. This is the third time I'm suggesting this, and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. This ban is meant to clarify my original statement that you need more time shadowing this job. In fact, I originally left you unbanned from Captain as a show of good faith. I have received complaints already today about your conduct as a Captain that led to me authorizing the expansion of the ban.

But actually you ban me to remedy a stipulation: And your banning from captainship today was my remedying of a stipulation. If you're not allowed to act as HOP, it's only fair you shouldn't be allowed to be their superior.


So I would have to ask, who is really banning me here, and what really is the reason? This is why I was so "Dismissive" in the first place, because all I was trying to do was understand exactly what I did wrong, but it almost seemed like your minds were already made up to just tell me to not do something and expect me to just go "Yeah okay" and move on, instead of understanding. I kept asking questions, about everything you were telling me, and kept getting vague responses, which prompted me to tell you that you weren't helping, because you weren't. I didn't understand, and no matter how hard I tried to, I was brushed aside, which caused me to ignore your "Recommendation" which, by the way, not much of a recommendation if the only other option, is being banned. That's an Ultimatum.

Cataclysmanic
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Re: [Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by Cataclysmanic »

I was not the one who authorised the ban. I showed support for it, and simply executed something that Captain had authorised. Captain is the one who banned you, not me. Hence my statement about "Remedying a stipulation." Captain had extended the ban, and I followed through with it.

OmegaBlep
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Re: [Cataclysmanic and Captain227] Banned from HoP and Captain for very little reason

Post by OmegaBlep »

Also, I have another question. If all this is based on IC situations, and my failure to "Learn," on an RP server, why was this not handled ICly?

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