Zemsta Ban Appeal

[JohnPaulo]

BYOND Name:
Zemsta

Reason Banned:
You have been banned by dickydeck.
Reason: As a lawyer, decided they wanted to validhunt, grabbed lethals and shot crewmembers that we're not even Wizard, was warned about this before. Take this time to read the rules throroughly.
This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 2880 minutes.
Admin who banned:
DickyDeck
Length Banned:
48h
Appeal Reason:
So, it was a wizard round, I was a lawyer, there was no HoP, no security, and no Captain, wizard stole captain's spare ID and gave some crewmember all-access then claimed that she is "friendly", later this crewmember went to armory(AI however don't stopped him before, or after the incident) and took some stuff, then HoS joined to game and went braindead, so in this case of emergency I took his ID and 2 lasers from armory, and went out to hunt the wizard, AI was not pleased with the fact that I want to kill human(wizard) and locked me with this crewmember who had all-access from wizard, he attacked me and tried to arrest me(he had security equipment), I shot him a few times to slow him down, and then stunned him, when I tried to handcuff him someone flashed me and crewmember with all-access arrested me.
It was secret round, there is no such thing as friendly-wizard on secret, in case of emergency (no heads and security with high threat such as a wizard/blob/nukeops) breaking to armory and taking guns to protect the station is the only solution, or was I supposed to try kill a wizard with a broken bottle?
I took only lasers, and was not expecting wizard-symphatizer(aided by AI) to attack me and try to arrest me, I shot only him, and I don't killed him while facing the possibility to do so, instead I tried to handcuff him and detain so he can't aid enemy of the corporation, however while I was arresting him someone flashed me and instead I got handcuffed. Then self-proclaimed 'security officer' who got all-access from a wizard took me to brig and jailed me.
As a lawyer I am the closest to security(I mean brig access, not duties), braindead HoS was the event that forced me to grab guns from armory and hunt enemy wizard(who had captain access), there was no other option since wizard pupil(aided by AI) knew what I was up to.
I never shot anyone else than wizard pupil who tried to arrest me, and even then I don't tried to kill him but only restrain and detain (Although aiding enemy of the corporation is a capital crime followed by either permabrig or death)
I know I was not security, but there was no one else able to take guns from armory (expect wizard and his pupil obviously), what was I supposed to do? wait it out because maybe, just maybe, someone will eventualy join security forces? and maybe, just maybe we won't get slaughtered in meantime?
What is the point of secret rounds if someone is claiming to be "friendly" wizard, gang, or cult?

I am pretty sure that from all this situation only I got banned, for trying to hunt a wizard and breaking to armory when there was no heads, no security, and no captain.
The whole situation was an emergency, and I feel like everything I did is justified, and all other approach would get me killed, powerful, timestopping, teleporting wizard from The Wizard Federation infiltrated the station and we had no chance of defending ourselfes but to take guns from armory.
Imagine this situation with lings, no security, no heads, and no captain, and ling who stole captain ID, what would be the right response in this case?
However I don't think I made myself clear, so I was apparently running around station shooting random people, because why not I guess.
I don't feel like this ban is reasonable? I was forced to arm myself up and fight because there was no one else to fight,
it was not any different from nukeops or lings round with 0 security forces

[Trojan_Coyote]

The problem is, this is generally considered power gaming(from what I have seen). Since you also fired lethals upon a fellow crew member, this is against space law, as you have been quoting. Lethal force only to meet lethal force or something extraordinarily dangerous in close proximity with cuffs.

I'm not an admin and do not claim to be. Just trying to offer outside perspective.

[JohnPaulo]

"Since you also fired lethals upon a fellow crew member, ", she was aiding a wizard, also she got all-access from wizard, she was in armory, I assumed she is a wizard apprentice, I shot her without intent to kill her, and I used lethals because I had only laser, for purpose of killing a wizard.
Since she was cooperating with wizard I assumed that I will either get executed or permabriged, therefore risking failure was unacceptable, I didn't know if she got scroll of apprenticeship either, however I still only used enough shots to slow her down a little, then I took stunbaton out instead of finishing her with laser, after that I tried to handcuff her.

[cebutris]

I wasn't present when this took place, but this is NOT the first time you've been warned for being validhunt security mini as a lawyer. This time you lethally attacked another crewmember with guns you obtained via stolen access. This is not okay. Killing someone who is aiding an antag isn't your duty as a lawyer. Killing someone who has illegal access is not your duty as a lawyer. Killing antags is not your duty as a lawyer.

You have a history of doing shit like this, so I don't believe the ban was invalid.

[JohnPaulo]

I don't think you actually read when I said(about 6 times) that I don't had intention to kill person aiding the wizard, I don't killed that person either, I hit her about 2-3 times with a laser(since I don't had any other option) to slow her down, then I stunned her and tried to handcuff her. She was trying to stun me, it was in self-defense.
There was no security and no heads, obviously killing antags is not my duty, but it was not a traitor round but a wizard round without security, which is closer to nukeops/blob round than traitor round.
"You have a history of doing shit like this, so I don't believe the ban was invalid. "
I got warned(jobbanned) for being security lite only once, and it was mainly from boredom(and security telling me to fuck off when I was telling them that they set wrong timer for prisoner, still main reason of the ban was flashing someone who was set to arrest and handcuffing him), this time my actions was actually necessary and justified, however you can just assume that I am in the wrong because I got jobbaned once, that's fine I guess.

[Ruby Flamewing]

Fun fact: when that round happened, remember when I told you IC that "if you want to be the hero the station needs, sign on as a Security Officer, not as a Lawyer". This is why: lawyers are basically assistants with the RP role of trying to hold court sessions to try and get one of two things to happen, both being a reduction of sentence. The two things is being the lawyer for a convicted antag, and the other is for defending the innocent from unfair or unjust sentence passing from Security or the Captain.

There's a reason you won't see the chef going around, hunting lings or traitors with a cleaver, or Science running around with tons of guns in their backpack to hunt the same targets: that's not their job, and aside from violating the validhunting rule (Rule 10.1 [don't abandon job to hunt antags unless your job can contribute greatly, such as atmos tech making flamethrowers to fight xenos] and 10.5 [crew can defend themselves, but should go Security if they want to hunt antags]), they're just as likely to be thought to be the threats to the station and taken out because of the sketchy as fug fact that they're out validhunting rather than staying where they should be.

So, again, the fact that you're violating some of the sections to Rule 10 *again*, have a history of doing this and violating Rule 9 (the powergaming rule), and on top of that, resorted to using lethals to quote, "weaken" means that you don't really understand the proper way to weaken a target. Lethals means one thing: you plan on lethally handling a target, where the only 'weakened' state is to be putting them in critical condition. If you grabbed the laser guns, that meant you only intended to do harm to the wizard, not plan for any sort of disabling or non-lethal handling. Considering the crew wasn't fighting the wizard, that clearly means that they weren't going to aid you either, failure to prepare for such an occasion (since you cited knowing that the crew was siding with the wizard in the first place) means that your planned course of action was to stick to lethals against all opposition.


So, in conclusion, consider the fact that you keep doing this thing over and over again (and have drummed up enough complaints that folks seemingly gripe about your poor conduct on what feels like a daily basis) as something to learn from. You want to be the hero the station needs against antags, go Security Officer, not Lawyer. That's what Security is for - lawyers are there to try and make sure folks get a fair sentence, not take up the role of Batman or The Owl. If anything, you're just as liable to end up getting an angry crew to just valid you for trying to ruin the fun of the round. Yes, antags are there to make the round interesting, but I do believe that if the round is interesting and folks are having fun already, trying to Batman as a non-Security member is just an act done in poor taste and not the best intent. I'll leave it to the other admins to reference, correct, and edit all of this as needed, but the fact remains: if you really want to play the valid salad game, be a SO, Warden, or even HoS. That's their point, after all, is maintaining law and order to the station and being the ones to go handle threats to station and crew.

[Kenzie]

Provided the OP's account is accurate, then surely the random crewmember using illegal all access to loot the armory should also have been banned for powergaming.

[GloriousStormtalon]

The station seemed pretty much in shape besides you going around, being very adamant on taking down the other crewmembers for the purpose of taking down the wizard, screaming at them they were wizard sympathethizers.

What set it off, though, was the fact you asked "what's validhunting" which means you haven't read the rules entirely, since it explains what validhunting is in there, so, I wish you to take these two days off to re-evaluate what you do after being told multiple times to NOT act like Security as a lawyer. You said you don't want to play Security Officer because you lag and will be disarmed, then why do you insist on fighting antagonists as a lawyer, using lethals?

[JohnPaulo]

The station seemed pretty much in shape besides you going around, being very adamant on taking down the other crewmembers for the purpose of taking down the wizard, screaming at them they were wizard sympathethizers.

Only 1 crewmember actually, she got all-access from wizard, so it was kind of treachery?, and she tried to take me down.

"What set it off, though, was the fact you asked "what's validhunting" which means you haven't read the rules entirely, since it explains what validhunting is in there"
I did read rules but validhunting is like, confusing


"then why do you insist on fighting antagonists as a lawyer, using lethals? "
There was no security, and I had brig access, so I thought I have like resources to fight the wizard

"1. Don’t abandon your job to go hunt confirmed antags, unless your job can contribute a specific benefit against antags (e.g., atmos tech with a flamethrower against aliens)."
I think brig access to get guns easier is a specific benefit against a wizard, kinda, maybe, probably?

"4. If the station is being besieged by powerful antags (blobs, aliens, etc.) feel free to help in any way you can, but your job still comes first unless you are directly affected or threatened."
Wizard is a powerful antag, and I don't really had anything to do without security so I was helping

"5. Players are of course allowed to defend themselves, but if you want to hunt antags you should play security."
I think this "you should" is kinda unclear, maybe "you have to" would be better, what if there was no security, should I just let wizard do his stuff? like, nuke armory with fireball and leave everyone disarmed, that was kinda threatening, especially because it was an actual possibility, a few fireballs in armory and RIP station

[Kenzie]

This does kinda go against a very strict interpretation of the rules as written, but I'm not really entirely sure I agree with this ban to be honest. I don't really think trying to kill a wizard should be considered the same as pretending to be sec as a lawyer, unless everyone's to be considered "acting as security" when they try to fight a blob/xenos/malf ai/whatever. It's probably already expired anyway so idk though.