Ban Appeal

[Kurou]

BYOND Name:Krovakon
Reason Banned: Ahelping randomly being tazed, then arrested by security and NOT being told of my crimes until I was already put in a cell and AFTER I ahelped. Admins marked it as an IC issue without verifying that the reasoning for the arrest was valid, so I responded stating that Retaliation would be an IC issue as well so that in the event it would NOT be an IC issue, they could notify me immediately that I wasn't to do such a thing.
Admin who banned: cebutris.

Length Banned: Perma

Appeal Reason: I don't think Ahelping an issue warrants a permaban without any prior notification that it would occur. the fact that there was literally 0 communication (other than hitting the button that says IC issue) from admins at all prior to the ban is absolutely unacceptable for a perma-ban. They made 0 attempt to reach out and notify me of anything for this ban or that further pursuing the matter would result in a ban, they just flipped the switch and (politely) told me to fuck off forever.
Ban message: You have been banned by cebutris.

Reason: Once again ahelping after getting arrested validly, then claiming anything they do in retaliation is IC after an admin marked the ahelp as IC. Considering you've already been banned for this once, and you haven't got the message, take a longer ban.
This is a permanent ban.




PS: Unrelated to this specific case but in my first ban I was spaced by the curator in an extended round and notified the HoS who witnessed it and refused to arrest him claiming it's just a prank bro" So I harmbatonned him in medbay. The ban was warranted even if I think it's a load of shit, which is why I didn't appeal it. This however is absolutely unacceptable.

[Kenzie]

It's difficult to tell whether you did anything wrong or not because of this short investigation tbh.

[17:00:27]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #7: Krovakon/(Omar Harris): yo this guy came up and tazed then cuffed me. - heard by 0 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[17:00:53]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Cebutris/(Loup Noir)->Zemsta/(Antoni Macierewicz): Why are you arresting Omar?
[17:01:03]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Zemsta/(Antoni Macierewicz)->Cebutris/(Loup Noir): because its my job, he stole prisoner from me
[17:02:02]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #7 marked as IC by Cebutris/(Loup Noir)
[17:02:05]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #8 resolved by Cebutris/(Loup Noir)
[17:02:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Krovakon/(Omar Harris): Alright then, retaliation is an IC issue as well - heard by 0 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[17:04:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Cebutris/(Loup Noir) has banned Krovakon/(Omar Harris).

Calling it an IC issue was probably an okay judgement either way, since mistakes happen and as long as you weren't being taken out of the round for massive amounts of time then it doesn't mandate admin intervention. It's not really acceptable to retaliate against a justified arrest that isn't being conducted in an egregiously abusive way. If you didn't actually steal any prisoners though, then some degree of retaliation would also be an IC issue though.

So I guess the question is "did you steal a prisoner?". Either way I think a permaban is kinda excessive. But if you did actually steal a prisoner I can see why this would look like a shitter attitude.

[Kurou]

It's difficult to tell whether you did anything wrong or not because of this short investigation tbh.

[17:00:27]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #7: Krovakon/(Omar Harris): yo this guy came up and tazed then cuffed me. - heard by 0 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[17:00:53]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Cebutris/(Loup Noir)->Zemsta/(Antoni Macierewicz): Why are you arresting Omar?
[17:01:03]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Zemsta/(Antoni Macierewicz)->Cebutris/(Loup Noir): because its my job, he stole prisoner from me
[17:02:02]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #7 marked as IC by Cebutris/(Loup Noir)
[17:02:05]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #8 resolved by Cebutris/(Loup Noir)
[17:02:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #9: Krovakon/(Omar Harris): Alright then, retaliation is an IC issue as well - heard by 0 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[17:04:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Cebutris/(Loup Noir) has banned Krovakon/(Omar Harris).

Calling it an IC issue was probably an okay judgement either way, since mistakes happen and as long as you weren't being taken out of the round for massive amounts of time then it doesn't mandate admin intervention. It's not really acceptable to retaliate against a justified arrest that isn't being conducted in an egregiously abusive way. If you didn't actually steal any prisoners though, then some degree of retaliation would also be an IC issue though.

So I guess the question is "did you steal a prisoner?". Either way I think a permaban is kinda excessive. But if you did actually steal a prisoner I can see why this would look like a shitter attitude.

I picked up a guy that was laying on the floor of cargo and put him outside the department entrance. Didn't realize the officer(?) in there was arresting him, just that I don't understand why the virologist was attempting to get into mining when no information ever came over comms, so I politely removed him from the department after picking him up. Officer just randomly comes up to me 3-5 minutes later and tazes+arrests me. Plus I wasn't told it was a lawful arrest by the admins at any point and only AFTER being put in a cell and ahelping the issue was I told of my charges by the LAWYER(Who was the one who ARRESTED me in the first place,I think it was the lawyer anyway, not an actual security guard but the definition of roles can change in game and I have no idea what the circumstances of the lawyer being told he can arrest people are, or I could be horribly mistaken and it was the detective. Pretty sure it was the lawyer though).

 I understand that admins cannot give away any IC related info due to the nature of how the game is played, but confirming whether or not something WAS a valid arrest would have been significantly useful information to me. It would straight up say that I had done something that had broken space law and deserved what happened. Marking it an IC issue gives me absolutely 0 information to make a judgement other than admins confirming they are NOT stepping into the situation. I don't know if I was in the wrong, he was in the wrong, we were both wrong, I know NOTHING and CANNOT make an informed decision which is why I followed with the second ahelp to see if retaliation would be an IC issue or if it would be a rule break. Then boom permabanned. I tried to communicate SPECIFICALLY to avoid any potential of ruining someones round and breaking a global rule(which I technically did before and was the cause of my first ban and LEARNED from my previous mistake to acquire more information before I do something that could potentially be a rulebreak.)

[cebutris]

Okay, so a permaban was definitely excessive, that much I will admit to. However, the one thing that the logs do not show is the fact that I checked your notes and that I saw that you have done basically the exact same thing in the past, and got tempbanned for it. Now, you didn't exactly retaliate, but it isn't a huge leap in logic from the reply and the notes that you would have. I'll lower the ban to three days, considering the last time this happened was two days

[Kurou]

Okay, so a permaban was definitely excessive, that much I will admit to. However, the one thing that the logs do not show is the fact that I checked your notes and that I saw that you have done basically the exact same thing in the past, and got tempbanned for it. Now, you didn't exactly retaliate, but it isn't a huge leap in logic from the reply and the notes that you would have. I'll lower the ban to three days, considering the last time this happened was two days

While I do feel that a 3 day ban for Ahelping a (potential) issue instead of attempting to solve it personally(IC) is a bit excessive, since it's an even longer ban than the previous one where I committed an actual rule break versus this one where I *could* have committed a rule break, I'm not going to argue/negotiate for it to go down though. I'd appreciate things being communicated a bit more clearly in the future if it's at all possible though. I don't plan to Adminhelp after this anymore though, seeing as to how it went from permaban > 3 day ban after appeals for asking questions related to an issue to prevent a possible conflict, i'll just go braindead if I'm alive at the end of it and come back for the next round. Simply not worth the trouble trying to deal with any issues.

Thanks to all of you for your time in regards to this appeal request, you're free to close it since the issue has been handled.

[cebutris]

Now that I think on it, I think it's been enough time. I was stressed at the time, and it was really unprofessional of me to take the course of action that I did. I apologize.

[Jay]

I checked on it myself. The perma was over the top and has been overturned. But I did see where you started getting out of control with ahelps and the OOC bit. Please try to remain calm about situations in the future and don't flood a-helps or OOC. Because that doesn't help anyone in the least bit and only serves as a roadblock to progress anything positively.