[Decision Reached] Security: Roundstart Nonlethal Ballistics

[StellarWolf]

Just going to throw that out that if a vox is causing trouble and needs to actively be hunted down with ballistics, they are already abusing their stun resistant and should be ahelped. Really, in a roleplay environment like this, what's the point of ballistics? Sure antag events, but just keep the weaponry from baseline in for blue alert for those rare antag events, and then put the .45 in there as well. The tasers/energy guns are good enough. If things do get to the point of needing the heavy artillery, then that is where cargo comes into play.

[Kerbal22]

I mean i'm pretty sure ballistics are part of roleplay, because ... you know. Choice ... ? That's a thing. Someone may prefer ballistics. Someone may prefer energy. Some people don't want one or the other. It's not just 'buh, roleplay environment'. It is a matter of choice. Again. This adds a purely non lethal option ...

And you've still not really given an opinion on either of the pull requests Kevinz mentioned.

[StellarWolf]

Oh, right, I was moreso focusing on the vox aspect of the argument mentioned. Honestly, If pepper rounds do no damage like some of the other rounds, go for it. Agony damage is better than a combination of both that and physical damage medical has to deal with any day.

[kevinz000]

the code definition of "weaken" is literally a /tg/ style hard stun, so I hope it isn't that kind of weaken.

upcoming hybrid tasers/disablers will use energy beam disablers, rather than electrical stuns.
the current disabler beams are electrical stuns but those will be phased out into new disablers.

don't uhh count on anything though because this is all post hard sync so it won't happen for a month probably and I don't think holding up the two PRs for another month is a good thing.

[Trilby Space Clone]

Not a Sec player at all.
I think sec should have ballistics in them do to EMP tech and utility, such as the flash rounds being a improper flare gun.
Even in real life cops get a set of lethal "Ballistics" and a taser, so it could even be ruled as a "Long lasting tradition form Sol Police forces"
Along with the pepper bullets, perhaps a change on how rubber shots work, so they don't brake bones or such.
I can see events like solar grubs being what they are `A light emp mob, that is lethal to you` being takin down with a gun in by sec rather then a toolbox by a visitor...

[yeetarp]

this is high RP so I assume we'd want to be semi realistic. IRL cops all have a lethal firrarm(unless you're in a cuckold country) so sec should have lethals incase their life is in danger. A station filled with aliens isn't as dangerous as the USA but it's close. BUT tasers work better in a game than IRL. I think people should be shot by lethals if taser+cuff so it can be a downside.

[Kazkin]

I've also seen people meme together four pistols into one using circuits/science tools so that they have a weapon that fires four bullets a second simultaneously, guaranteeing some tasty Excessive Force.

Firstly, not everything is meme. Secondly, this was me who did this as a test idea and it was done 1 round while warden and never done again afterwards. A quad barrel circuit design isn't going to be any less or more effective just because I loaded in a bunch of rubber .45s instead of stun guns.

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On topic, given the players who tend to cause trouble almost always have major non-conductive (whether it makes sense rp-wise or not) I'd only be for the removal of rubber bullets if major non-conductive was also removed. As it stands I would say having the option for flash, pepper, rubber, and stun rounds give better variety. Taking things away just isn't fun but I wouldn't be upset if they were removed as the armory has an autolathe to print rubber rounds.

[Kerbal22]

Rubbers aren't being removed. We're talking about removing the .45 pistols from the Sec-Tech all officers can access / AND OR Adding pepperball rounds to the sec-tech to complement the .45 pistols, and replace flash rounds and be an alternative to rubber bullets.

Rubbers will still be available in the armory, as they've always been.

[AlphaMach]

I don't see why there'd be a need for removing the .45s from the Sec Vendor, it's a lot more practical to have a pistol that can use different types of ammo than to lock it away and have a need for different guns to do the same thing.
Also building on what Yeet said, so we don't compare Sec to Police, even uni campus guards (at least here) have lethal-capable guns, so it makes sense security on a research station would have it, just in case it's necessary.

[Kazkin]

Well, if we're using IRL security as an example I'm a security guard. Base level security like low tier factories, warehouses, mall cops, or store guards generally do not carry any weapons, their job is to observe and report. But when you get to the medium tier such as pharmacy guards, bank guards, or security involving any money/wealth they are armed with lethals. No stuns guns, no pepperspray, lethals. Literally one of the first things I was asked when I was hired as security was "Do you own a hand gun and if yes do you have your concealed carry permit?". When it comes to realism, our security officers would be given lethals before non-lethals with the sector and environment the station exists in.

Personally I'd rather keep both rubbers AND .45 pistols, as the benefit of forty five pistols was adaptable ammo, just as the energy gun beats a taser for having both lethal and non-lethal modes. Load in pepper rounds or flash rounds in most scenarios but if the situation calls for it you can load rubbers or be issued lethal rounds by the warden in the rare antag event.