Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Kered
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Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by Kered »

BYOND Name of complaint against: Snow n chrysanthemums

Your BYOND name: Kered2

Date of issue and round ID: Approximately 8:30am, GMT + 0, 20/02/2019.

Reason for complaint: After serving deathbells to Faux upon their request for every drink, and bringing them to the medbay when I noticed their condition had dropped slightly on my HUD (to 89%) Samdup decided to inform command that I had violated my protect law. Apparently command decided 2 vs 2 to lock me down and deconstruct me, they they then did so despite the tied vote, under the encouragement of Samdup Tashi (who had been directly involved in my last deconstruction on a seperate round, that also resulted in it being judged that I was deconstructed without sufficient reason). My MMI was then brought to the command meeting room, where I was engaged in a talk for an hour or more regarding the exact specifications of the protect law, despite Faux repeatedly claiming all responsibility and being told to stay silent by what I believe was the head of security (Sajiid) at the time (who claimed their 'injured leg', a roleplayed aspect of their character, granted them access to restricted security equipment, and ordered their staff to prepare for a riot/revolution.)

I was also queried extensively on why a crew member followed me inside engineering for approximately fifteen seconds as I examined the consoles to determine why a grid check was taking longer then usual by Uwasv, the chief engineer for that round, when nothing I did during that time was a law violation in any way, shape, or form. Sajiid, Uwasv, Alyona (the command director, I am unsure if I spelt their name correctly), and Samdup all seemed to use the opportunity to extensively query me on on why I served a drink, as requested, as well as Sajiid arming the crew and attempting to instigate code red as a justification to exercise their power.

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StellarWolf
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Re: Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by StellarWolf »

Lets not forget this gem I had found out from someone: Image

In seriousness though? That was massive overstatement of power. It escalated because of a simple drink, and an SnR getting weaponry and sec comms just because of a minor issue that security could easily have handled.

Proof of the sec communications given to said SnR:
Image

Here's mike also further inciting chaos in security and command, causing a player to leave a second later:
Image

Also, the AI informing us of what is happening:
Image

Nothing more than a clusterfuck that could have easily been handled by telling Cerby to never serve that drink again.

EDIT: This is about Sajiid and Samdup, mike harris is involved in that he is the part that shouldn't have been given the sec access. He did incite a bit of chaos and antagonize someone from medical though.

Cameron Lancaster
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Re: Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by Cameron Lancaster »

Kered, I think your post would be assisted by saying exactly what you felt was done wrong and why you're opening the complaint--from what you've written, it sounds like you could be claiming either incompetence or metagrudging.

Stellar, I'm not sure what your post is about, since it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what Kered posted. It looks like a separate issue altogether.

For my part, anyone even passingly familiar with silicon laws on RP should be able to understand that a cyborg can choose to obey a command by a crewmember that would cause harm to them. Given that their laws are not in sequence or preference, breaching 'Protect' to fill 'Serve' is just as valid as the opposite. This should not have been allowed to escalate to deconstruction. People playing in Head of Staff roles should know this and the choice to continue with deconstruction despite the hung vote is extremely off-putting.

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StellarWolf
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Re: Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by StellarWolf »

Some added info from the RD, done by request and allowed to be posted. (Note this does not bring anyone else onto the complaint, this is basically a cerberus vs Sajiid/Samdup complaint):
Image

Also, it ties in heavily Cameron. Take with it what you will, but also take in the fact that the only reason an SnR was there was because of Sajiid, which the complaint was about.

kevinz000
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Re: Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by kevinz000 »

don't even have time right now to look into the whole excessive use of force/giving out gear to nonsec/hos/cmo/rd business but I'd like to say that "your leg is fucked" is not a reason to wear a rigsuit all the time, maybe enough to get to medbay to have it fixed or in an emergency but that's a bullshit excuse, at that point just say you're wearing it because you want to, which is entirely fine in some circumstances (this is coming from someone who wears the rig all the time as RD), but saying it's because of a leg that medbay can easily fix is some funny shit right there.

Also as the person who greenlit security rigsuits: They're to be treated as specialized armor, incase anyone was confused. Normal voidsuits are there for the normal stuff.

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Re: Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by kevinz000 »

https://hastebin.com/oboguruyow.hs full radio logs with all ckeys redacted

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Re: Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by kevinz000 »

On the silicon lawbreaks:
If you're command you should probably already know (this is in the rules and a widely known thing) that self-harm is not something cyborgs have to care about and I'm confused why people were on Cerberus for serving Faux deathbell after he asked for it.

Kered
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Re: Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by Kered »

In response to Cameron's request, I specifically feel that there was extreme and gross incompetence from Samdup and Sajiid, and overt metagrudging on the part of Samdup thinly disguised ICly as "I don't like cyborgs therefore they should die". I should not have been deconstructed, that conversation should not have happened, as has been mentioned. I can add more details if anyone likes, but that is the main thrust of my argument.

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Allakai
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Re: Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by Allakai »

Right so Im finally getting around to looking into this as I myself am in question. I am the player of Sajiid Vihtori Al-Shakoor. Given the absolute crapshoot that was the round in question I'll start chewing into this and explain things from my side of the situation. First I will state I hold no ill will to cerb's player. In fact I like cerb on an OOC level. On an IC level regarding the relationship between Sajiid and Cerberus, there is no ill intent there either. In fact Cerberus and Sajiid have spoken on a personal level once or twice and I feel they get along more or less. That is something I would like to address right off the bat. There is no IC or OOC ill intent or motive against Cerberus from neither me as a player, nor ICly from Sajiid.

Onto the issues at hand presented by Kered. I will admit the deconstruction of Cerberus was certainly a step too far; however, when questioned on Sajiid's opinion , given it was not my authority to say either or, I had said it was entirely the R.D.'s decision, see attachment:
R.D.'s decision.PNG
R.D.'s decision.PNG (6.45 KiB) Viewed 5554 times
I will fully address my view on this, and honestly, when I reflect on it, a lot of this was entirely misunderstanding. As stated by Stellar (Which was actually brought up by ARS on the discord), I was told to have a hardsuit. This is correct. Sajiid was wearing a hardsuit. What ARS leaves out was that I had worn the hazard suit for an expedition that was cleared far earlier in the shift. Attachment for proof from radio logs:
expedition evidence.png
expedition evidence.png (32.39 KiB) Viewed 5554 times
I also have more reasoning from my post on the discord on #Staff-Forum explaining myself and the use of the hardsuit.
admittentance of use and return.PNG
admittentance of use and return.PNG (23.52 KiB) Viewed 5554 times
The reason for taking the hazard hardsuit was due to the fact we had encountered a large spider nest as well as a xenomorph hive. It was for the protection of the very small exploration team and ultimately had helped limit the causalities to null. We were wounded, but no one was killed. After I had returned the hazard suit, the exploration team of Jeru and Ahzrukhal, Mike Harris, with Jim Sanders and myself as Sajiid all returned back to the dust planet. And in fact I had no plans to return for a long while as we were relaxing on a simple beach trip after an exhausting expedition.

Onto the root cause of the issue: there was a spat between Faux and Cerberus where Cerberus had allowed Faux to drink (I do not know someone do fill me in? I believe it was 200 units?) a lot of deathbell. Though apparently it did do damage, it was said by several people including Cerb's medical analyzer that Faux's health only dropped to 89%. Honestly this was not my issue and I truly didnt care at that point as in a similar point, another officer had drank several units of I believe to be mind breaker. In both cases both security members knew fully what they were drinking. I did not feel the need to punish either of them as their stupid decision was punishment enough.
Daudson and Faux case.PNG
Daudson and Faux case.PNG (15.07 KiB) Viewed 5554 times
Onto what I felt was something that was blown completely out of proportion. The dismantling of Cerberus. We, as command, were fully notified that what we were doing was not lethal to Cerberus, that we simply would speak to him. :
Ru's word.PNG
Ru's word.PNG (4.31 KiB) Viewed 5554 times

Onto the next issue involving my decision to allow Mike security equipment.

Mike on his employment records has this (courtesy of Mike's Player):

2 years security service.

EMT-B certificate, valid.

Security Officer certificate valid.

Search And Rescue Combat Medical Certificate, valid.

EMT-B certificate, valid.

NT Security Officer certificate valid.

Search And Rescue Combat Medical Certificate, valid.

USRA Colonial Expansion Service Security-A certificate. valid.

Robust Security Medal.

Given that also ICly Sajiid had just completed an expedition with Harris with the aforementioned complete and utter success, I had made the decision he was to be pulled onto the security team to assist in keeping the station secure and sane. Even explicitly I had said that Harris was to be given gear, but he was to stay with an officer at all times.

Given I have run out of space I will make a secondary post to add more quotes and points. Apologies, this is not the end of my post.

Edit: I am retardo and forgot to add something in the expedition explanation part. Sorry, bout that.
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Characters: Arrogant Cat Dad, General Grievous Rip-off HoP, mildly incestual cat doctor

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StellarWolf
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Re: Complaint regarding Snow n chrysanthemums

Post by StellarWolf »

That explains the hard-suit fort he most part, but you had three on duty officers already (Hence the ARS dislike of the issue.), and the SnR you equipped already had a job on duty which giving a second job would only create micromanaging for the most part. Medical was only composed of me and Samdup, and I was being deemed a threat at that point for merely voicing my concerns according to what I am reading from the logs. She has a great history of firing folks for the simplest of things, but that is a separate issue. The fact was that you essentially left medical with only the CMO since I had basically got to the point of defection due to the insuring injustice going on. You also had a sec borg that had gone defective as well because of your overstating and the induced fear that he would also be deconned, up to the point of him ahelping and asking if he could do this and that to save himself icly. You are not entirely to blame for this though, the one at fault most here is the CMO for escalating things for a simple request due to Kevin's aforementioned borg silicon self harm explanation. For the most part, the admins will deem their part in this on their own accord, but I don't think you should be punished for this, only talked to about it. Mike Harris is of the same viewing regarding this, him being merely a bystander for the most part in a large drama fest icly. As for Abatha, I feel as though she is the same regard as you and unaware of the borg breaking ordeal that I heard of, I myself knew nothing of it (Considering I don't play synthetics.).
Last edited by StellarWolf on Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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