[RP] Crashinator08 and Dalyah - Ban reason has no context/Griefing self antag.

[Fargothur6969]

BYOND Name of complaint against: Crashinator08 and Dalyah

Your BYOND name: FargothUr911

Date of issue and round ID: 2019/07/16

Reason for complaint: Let me start from the beginning, I was playing as Elizabeth Charkin as a cook, another player by the name of Shoots-The-Walls helps me with the kitchen, bringing me meat and vegetables, of course I was about to use them when suddenly, another player by the name of Dalyah comes over and takes ALL of my vegetables, I would be completely fine with this if she contributed to the kitchen in anyway, but she did absolutely nothing, just took everything and ran off.

Afterwards, I called on the common comms, stating that she had stolen my ingredients, security said not a single word, so I decided to report to both the Warden and IAA, nothing happened, so I decided to ask her for my stuff back on the service comms, no response, I go back to my duties, shrugging off the incident, I get more vegetables delivered, so I forgave her, but, she then comes back and starts taking ALL of the vegetables and all of my meatballs and cutlets into the food bag. I ask her if she even needed it and she said "No."

So, again, midly frustrated, I continued my job, Shoots brings me a huge amount of meat, Great! Time to cook! But then she comes back again, walks up to the pile of meat that I had, put ALL of it into her bag and tried to run off, so I used the disarm intent, swinging the cleaver and then swapping to my bare hand to try and get her to drop it, she does it back to me, I drop my cleaver and she takes it, so I scream into comms that I am going to kill her, I grab a fire extinguisher and start attacking her with it and she knives me back, I grabbed a tool box instead and bashed her with it until she was on the floor, security detained both of us and I get banned after a frustrating conversation.

Now, this is where I complain about the ban reason, it goes exactly like this, "You have been banned by crashinator08. Reason: Lethally attacked the other chef over taking cooking supplies. Has been warned about over escalation in the past.." Now, the problem with this ban reason, is that it completely neglects the fact that I tried to negotiate with her, called security on her, reported her to Warden and IAA, the ban reason makes me seem like I just attacked her straight after she took my stuff. I have also tried to tell the admin my reasoning behind it but he repeated himself, saying that I had "other options", I told him I reported her to security and he said that they must have saw no reason to arrest her, he also tried to downplay the grief that I had been experiencing, saying that she only took meat and cooking supplies, discounting the fact that she also did this THREE different times, it also missed out the fact that she took all of the vegetables and cheese, It also misses out the fact that she did absolutely NOTHING to contribute to the kitchen, taking all of the supplies and running off.

You may keep the ban on me if you wish, I only wanted to complain about both Crashinator08 and Dalyah, but I think to say that what I did was over escalation is false, and bringing my past actions up is not only a really cheap way of trying to stick a ban on me, but it also makes me look like an asshole because of that. Dalyah's behaviour is completely unacceptable, and Crashinator08 needs to fix the ban reason at the very least.

Screenshots will be posted in multiple posts due to file restrictions.

[Fargothur6969]

Here is the next batch of screenshots.

[Fargothur6969]

And another batch of screenshots.

[Fargothur6969]

Last three screenshots.

[Kazkin]

Considering my name is in most of these screenshots, I was one of the first officers to respond when the HoS called for backup, and I handled processing as well as brigging I feel its fair for me to weigh in on this.

The reason the security team didn't respond to the accusations of theft was because it was between two cooks, both of which are allowed to take said items for their respective tasks. When you specifically messaged me, the warden that shift, I was in a boxing match on the holodeck. A quick scan of the manifest showed that this was a departmental issue and not a security matter. As at the time we did not have an HoP I referred you to the HoS or IAA to handle it. Shortly after I get a call on the radio from central requesting all officers for back up outside the elevator on asteroid level three, as I was nearby I responded to find you (Elizabeth) and Dalyan both in cuffs with Central the HoS presiding over two medics patching you both up. Bismarck and I believe either Vail or Sorrel arrived shortly after.

Once medical gave us the clear that you were both fine we moved you both to processing and conducted a very brief interview. Both of you had bloody weapons and since we could not tell who swung first other than a single eye witness report I deemed a choice for both of you for a fitting punishment. This offer of choice is why I'm posting here. I state that both of you could walk out with only a minor assault charge IF you *both* agreed to apologize and hug it out. This meant a 200 credit fine and no brig time. You immediately, vindictively, said you wanted the brig and so both of you were placed in cells for 15 minutes. The issue I see is you willfully chose to be petty simply so Dalyan would also get a more severe punishment. Dalyan, for her sake, was quiet about the affair and just seemed annoyed but fine with the outcome.

Given how angry and outright hostile you were, not to mention petty, I honestly think Hazel let you off quite lightly here with just a day ban. Everything stated in the ban reason is entirely valid, you over escalated for poor reasons and simply could have prevented this by loading your own food bag with the things you needed. Both myself and the presiding officers and IAA felt your actions were idiotic and on par with Greytide as spoke over the security radio during the round. When you have a number of people (myself, Bismarck, Central, and Qerr and possible Vail/Sorrel) all agreeing you over-escalated you should be looking at the situation more along the lines of "What mistake did I make?" not "How was the admin unfair to me?"

[AvaricePleonexia]

Just a side little popcorn comment, but, why even escalate over meat of all things? Chef has access to hydroponics, just grow some plants and toss the fruit n' veggies in the biogen - boom, free(ish) meat. This isn't even an esoteric or little known fact, anyone who has stepped into the three culinary roles: chef, bartender, botanist; should have, at some point, come in contact with Hydroponics (be it for restocking food, or, creating fancy dishes/drinks.) I feel this complaint has little to no merit what-so-ever.

[Fargothur6969]

Just a side little popcorn comment, but, why even escalate over meat of all things? Chef has access to hydroponics, just grow some plants and toss the fruit n' veggies in the biogen - boom, free(ish) meat. This isn't even an esoteric or little known fact, anyone who has stepped into the three culinary roles: chef, bartender, botanist; should have, at some point, come in contact with Hydroponics (be it for restocking food, or, creating fancy dishes/drinks.) I feel this complaint has little to no merit what-so-ever.

You say this, but I have stated several times that she constantly took all of the ingredients and my equipment, how can I even grow meat or vegetables when she constantly comes into the kitchen and just takes all of them? Just grow them? She will just claim they are "hers" and just run off with them. My complaint definetly has merit, I just want the ban reason fixed and Dalyah to be punished for griefing me.

[Fargothur6969]

Once medical gave us the clear that you were both fine we moved you both to processing and conducted a very brief interview. Both of you had bloody weapons and since we could not tell who swung first other than a single eye witness report I deemed a choice for both of you for a fitting punishment. This offer of choice is why I'm posting here. I state that both of you could walk out with only a minor assault charge IF you *both* agreed to apologize and hug it out. This meant a 200 credit fine and no brig time. You immediately, vindictively, said you wanted the brig and so both of you were placed in cells for 15 minutes. The issue I see is you willfully chose to be petty simply so Dalyan would also get a more severe punishment. Dalyan, for her sake, was quiet about the affair and just seemed annoyed but fine with the outcome.

You know I couldn't even play the damn game properly for the entire round right? if somebody, for example, stormed into engineering and took ALL of the hardsuits, came back THREE times to clean out all the closets. What would you do? Report it like I did? Well I tried do the same, but for the kitchen, and I got no response, I saw her as a complete detriment to the station as I was unable to serve food (she never helped the kitchen) and so of course I would take the brig punishment.

Given how angry and outright hostile you were, not to mention petty, I honestly think Hazel let you off quite lightly here with just a day ban. Everything stated in the ban reason is entirely valid, you over escalated for poor reasons and simply could have prevented this by loading your own food bag with the things you needed. Both myself and the presiding officers and IAA felt your actions were idiotic and on par with Greytide as spoke over the security radio during the round. When you have a number of people (myself, Bismarck, Central, and Qerr and possible Vail/Sorrel) all agreeing you over-escalated you should be looking at the situation more along the lines of "What mistake did I make?" not "How was the admin unfair to me?"

I feel like my anger was justified, like I said, I was left unable to play the game, and it feels like now you think that being calm instantly makes you innocent and right, no it doesn't, we were both in the wrong. She was acting like a greytider when she kept stealing and antagonizing herself, and the fact you say I could've just used a foodbag is just dumb, the fact that I would have to play paranoia games just so I could actually serve my crew is beyond a joke, and again, it makes it seem like you are trying to pin me as the griefer here. Honestly, the next time this happens I will just tram straight out, because that seems to be the only logical IC way of dealing with it.

[Fargothur6969]

Also, I have just checked the rules, Rule 01: Do not Grief, it even says further into the examples provided, "Getting into an argument that evolves into a brawl that evolves into a fight with weapons that ends in death. Acceptable." So according to this, I haven't even broken a single rule, unless these rules do not apply to RP, which in that case, you should probably change it so it would actually say that these rules do not apply to RP.

EDIT: I have just asked "Does the "Rules" section apply to RP on this website?" to an admin, he said "Yes, the rules are currently for both servers", so now that has been confirmed, I don't see how I have actually broken any rules anymore. If there is no other rule I have broken, I will demand this ban to be removed from records.

Here is the website: https://citadel-station-rules.my-free.website/

Also, screenshot of the rule I am reffering to.

[Cameron Lancaster]

Neither Security nor IAA wanted to intervene and the Dalyah didn't engage with conversation. It looks like this person did everything they needed to do before resorting to violence. I'm not sure what else they could have done to resolve the issue, which was that another chef was taking the ingredients and... running off with them? Hiding them? Destroying them? Not making food with them. I can't imagine I would have been very happy if I were in this situation, either.