Main - R3dtaile - Changing the roundtype because they didn't like extended

[Burger]

BYOND Name of complaint against: R3dtaile
Your BYOND name: BurgerBB
Date of issue: August 3rd, 2019.
Round ID: 18511
Reason for Complaint: Changing the roundtype to chaos because they don't like extended.

Normal SS13 roundstart. People voted Extended. Extended won. R3dtaile decides "I don't want to do that because I didn't like the last extended round." and forced everyone to be traitor. There was no vote for a bus or anything and Since most people had hijack objectives, there was murderbone everywhere. New arrivals were confused and lost, but mostly lost because many of them had to break into maintenance as there was a plasma/n2o flood in arrivals. Redtail told people "It's your fault for not ahelping." when people were confused as to what the hell is going on.

But I think the important thing is that I'm not lying or making shit up when discussing Redtail's motives. That's literally what they said in deadchat. I asked if there was a vote and they said there was no vote. I asked why there was an adminbus they said they didn't want it to be extended last round because they had a bad experience as HoS. Like maybe I'm overreacting but just because the majority of people voted extended, an admin shouldn't go "I didn't like last round >:(." And force the gamemode type to full on murderbone.

Like yes, most decisions don't need a vote, but if you're affecting the roundtype in such a massive way and make it the absolute inverse of what people voted for, then that's just just really shitty adminbussing.

[Burger]

Just in case this argument starts, let me address admin policy. Note that the purpose of my complaints is not "BAN HE" but instead "hey maybe we shouldn't do this".

Admins maintain the right to set the gamemode as they see fit. A vote should be called to decide whether to change the round type, but it is ultimately up to the administration. A rule of thumb is to run secret whenever there are at least 15-20 players and/or during “prime-time” hours (12:00PM-12:00AM EST/GMT-5), and extended during the opposite.

The policy on this is vaguely worded with purpose, it's meant to allow some exceptions to things that people deem reasonable such as setting it to secret during highpop hours and extended during lowpop hours, or setting it to secret if extended was voted too many times in a row. That is what I understand from the policy. It also says that admins are allowed to force the gamemode without a vote but they SHOULD. Keyword here is SHOULD. I don't think any of this was really followed because the reason was, that they fully admitted, is that extended was a clusterfuck of a round for them, not because "extended is bad on highpop" or "we had too many extended rounds in a row" or "it's good for the server" but because "last extended round was a bad experience for me and I don't want that to happen again."

I would be absolutely fine if the gamemode was set to secret on it's own, like it was for the round preceding this chaotic round. You don't hear me complaining about that, but what you do hear me complaining about is several factors in decision making that just honestly felt improper. Like the equivalent to this situation is a cookbook saying "You should add more flour if your dough is wet.", nodding, and then proceeding to dump the entire bag of flour into your mix. I'm not complaining that admins shouldn't add flour to wet dough, I'm complaining that they responded to such an extreme without really consulting anyone first.

[Weblure]

I agree that there should have been a vote, or at least better communication on what was planned. The most warning we got was something along the lines of "I feel like we all need a break after that last shift", which somehow translated into "I'm going to turn everyone into a traitor 2 minutes into the extended round."

It was funny for the first few minutes, until everyone was murdered by either plasma flooding or metacliques teaming up to murderbone anything that moved, which left the majority of players to sit and watch the disaster with no way of reentering the round. Normally this isn't such a big deal, but when the majority of people voted for extended for roleplay purposes or to learn a department (which I and at least 2 other people were planning on), only for everything to immediately go to shit for the next 40+ minutes, all thanks to the personal decision of one person... Yeah, that's pretty irritating.

[madamheichou]

Considering I was involved in the round I feel like I should toss in some words. I helped Chase along with setting objectives and pushing buttons. I recall that during the round on question, you ahelped "please just cryo me" (not exact wording, I think?). You had every opportunity to bail on a round you weren't having fun in. You weren't one of the traitors so you had no reason to stick around, you could have cryo'd on your own or just gone SSD, considering there would be no consequence. How you went through the round was up to you, whether you tried to fight back the traitors or just removed yourself fron the round.
On the point about making a vote, I personally don't believe an admin is obligated to reveal their plans for a bussed round. Like you said, the guideline says we *should* make a vote, but we are not foot-down forced to. Should being the key word, not "have to". Sure, votes are encouraged, but we don't need to if we don't want to.
No one forced you to participate or not in what you felt was a bad or unfun round.
Chase and I welcomed players to ahelp and let us know they didn't want to be a traitor or if they wanted to be removed, and we obliged to the best we could.
I don't think it's very fair to shoot up an admin complaint for one round you didn't like out of actual hundreds.

[Trojan_Coyote]

I'm just gonna yeet this link in here that gives context on when forcing game modes is okay viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1115

[Trojan_Coyote]

This one that says the same thing too viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1114

[Weblure]

Considering I was involved in the round I feel like I should toss in some words. I helped Chase along with setting objectives and pushing buttons. I recall that during the round on question, you ahelped "please just cryo me" (not exact wording, I think?). You had every opportunity to bail on a round you weren't having fun in. You weren't one of the traitors so you had no reason to stick around, you could have cryo'd on your own or just gone SSD, considering there would be no consequence. How you went through the round was up to you, whether you tried to fight back the traitors or just removed yourself fron the round.
On the point about making a vote, I personally don't believe an admin is obligated to reveal their plans for a bussed round. Like you said, the guideline says we *should* make a vote, but we are not foot-down forced to. Should being the key word, not "have to". Sure, votes are encouraged, but we don't need to if we don't want to.
No one forced you to participate or not in what you felt was a bad or unfun round.
Chase and I welcomed players to ahelp and let us know they didn't want to be a traitor or if they wanted to be removed, and we obliged to the best we could.
I don't think it's very fair to shoot up an admin complaint for one round you didn't like out of actual hundreds.

The main issue here is that a majority vote (along with antag prefs) was overruled with little to no warning and with no vote, over the personal decision of 1-2 admins. Sure, admins don't have to reveal a bus or hold a vote for it, but typically it's an admin's responsibility to ensure a round is generally enjoyable to the majority. Going by the vote towards the end of the round, where about 80% of voters said they weren't having fun, I'd say that wasn't achieved. That's no surprise, considering the majority of the players were hoping for a peaceful, extended round, which they would have gotten, if it weren't for admin intervention.

>No one forced you to participate or not in what you felt was a bad or unfun round.
>Chase and I welcomed players to ahelp and let us know they didn't want to be a traitor or if they wanted to be removed, and we obliged to the best we could.
... Except, again, people were hoping for and expecting an extended round, but instead got the complete opposite because 1-2 people felt like it. I'm not sure how "welcoming players to ahelp and let us know they didn't want to be a traitors" is supposed to solve anything. Like, cool, now you get to have no way to defend yourself on a station that's going to shit. Problem solved! Telling people to just "not participate" in the round is also a pretty poor defense for disregarding the majority's preference for your own. You're telling people to sit out for 40 minutes of what was supposed to be a green shift, as if their time has no value over your desire to shit all over a majority-selected round just because you felt like it. I honestly don't understand how that's supposed to justify anything.

>I don't think it's very fair to shoot up an admin complaint for one round you didn't like out of actual hundreds.
... Isn't that kind of the point of a complaint? We're providing feedback into something an admin did that wasn't enjoyable, so that they can learn and grow from said feedback. It's no different than noting a player over something they did that you don't want them to repeat. If we're going to talk about being "fair", then I don't think it was fair for an admin to single-handedly ruin a round for the majority of players, and then act like wasting 40 minutes of everyone's time is a 'haha funny meme' followed by 'I'll add this to my growing list of complaints,' as if they don't give two shits about what anyone else thinks about their actions.

[Redtail]

"Most people" No. Everyone had that objective. and to be exact, the vote I /believe/ was not a majority for extended. I might be misremembering it, but I don't think it was that close. Either way. And yes, you are in fact making up my motives. You said repeatedly that I was malicious. And sure , the make everyone tator button didn't work as I was expecting it to. I did my best to roll with it to make the best of it. And I learned how to better do similar shenanigans in the future. One round that I at least /tried/ to do something different from the norm. Sure, Making a vote would've made the pill go down easier, but it was an impromptu decision that I rolled with. We're literally allowed to force secret if we want to. If I had a habit of forcing secret all the time, sure, you'd have merit here. But this was literally the first time I did something like this in quite a while.

[Redtail]

As for Weblure. I don't think 'single-handedly ruin a round for majority of players is a fair way of putting it. I opted to do something different from the norm for /once/ . Sure, folks were welcome to not like it, and after the vote I did, I know how to better do something like this in the future, or at least how to keep it from devolving into as much chaos. And I give plenty of shits what folks think about what I do, that was the point of the vote. But when I'm accused falsely, like Burger initially did before rewording it appropriately, I tend to ignore things like that. He made the assumption that I was malicious, and I most certainly was /not/ being malicious.

[Weblure]

I'm just gonna yeet this link in here that gives context on when forcing game modes is okay viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1115

See, this wouldn't have been as big of a deal if the round type was forced to secret. Then you'd just have a normal round where the majority of people could (most likely) still do whatever it is they were hoping to do without the entire station going to shit. Instead, what we got was force-antagging of every single person, creating an environment that encouraged the destruction of the station and random murder-boning, and made it pretty much impossible to roleplay or perform the job you've chosen.

People usually vote for extended for the following reasons: roleplaying, trying new things, or simply relaxing. When you force an environment where none of these things have a chance to happen, after the majority of players voted for extended... That's a problem.