The accidental murder happened over a few people messing with cargo constantly. Here is what happened.
The cargo bay warehouse was being expanded and then two people did multiple annoying and vandalizing things.
Multiple warnings were issued for them to stop but they refused to do so
Being thrown out didn't get them to stop
They kept repeating "We want to go through maintenance"
They kept running around the cargo bay, so trespass and annoyance
They kept knocking down walls multiple times vandalizing hard work even after we repaired it.
Now you might say that we didn't have permission to build an expanded cargo warehouse size. That is besides the point but if I must defend it I will say they also did not have the right to vandalize someone else's hard work. From a IC perspective this is absolutely proper escalation. I will also mention your rules don't really mention how a fight should start, just it needs strong justification which I do have as previously stated.
As for the murder escalation section
"You can’t go from a single rude punch to a knife in the neck."
Which didn't happen in this scenerio
"Minor aggravations like demotions, pranks, insults, or thefts are not adequate justification."
This statement applies to murders only since its under a section talking about murdering. I did not murder on purpose. Read below.
As for them dying part that was not entirely my fault (which wasn't mentioned until halfway through the ahelp.) I brought them immediately to the med-bay past a doctor past a doctor that was not SSD and said take them. But apparently because I didn't apply a bruise pack I am banned. Attempted to get them medical care but apparently the doctor who wasn't busy didn't help them, and trust me that crit lasts a while if you don't take any other damage besides what it gives you, which they didn't. That means the doctors were incredibly incompetent and thats not my fault. I got them medical, there was a good period of time to be healed but the medical department didn't provide.
Other various points
The fight itself was absolutely allowed under your rules its the fact that they accidentally died. Beat into crit? Doesn't matter I had strong justification for the fight. Not only that but after all of my hours of play I have never seen anybody get knocked out and if I had seen that message before I didn't think much of it. So to my knowledge this feature didn't even exist. If I had known about it I would've stopped there.
No rules on escalation of fights, only about proper escalation on murders
The ban seems a little long over an accident I mean really.
Final statement
You know I'm not a griefer and I don't negatively affect other peoples game play without proper IC reason. Sorry that they died but If the same thing Happens again they will still get their ass beat but I will make sure incompetent medical staff heal them.
Last edited by Snowdragon01 on Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
I've asked the party that was killed in that round to come to the forums and explain their side of the story. As of now, I will opt to leave this appeal until tomorrow, to which the other party will hopefully make their post. If you're not seeking to wait and want a decision made, I would have to refer you to Jay, Leon or Kenzie.
A.Echard wrote:
I've asked the party that was killed in that round to come to the forums and explain their side of the story. As of now, I will opt to leave this appeal until tomorrow, to which the other party will hopefully make their post. If you're not seeking to wait and want a decision made, I would have to refer you to Jay, Leon or Kenzie.
You know what that is fine I'll be waiting for their response.
I fully support this appeal. I've already spoken to Sevn about it, and Ive even given the situation a bit more thought.
This was, in my opinion, as reaistic as escalation can get, in the presented manner.
Someone's project was being vandalized, their ass is kicked silly, and theyre left to the doctors for recovery.
Anyone would beat the shit out of a punk digging a hole in your work, and from what Id gathered, the only arguable point is a double jeopardy of whether or not the expansion should have been done to begin with.
That does not define the escalation, the only thing that can even reasonably be punishable here is the possibility of the expansion being considered powergame.
I dont have anything against Sevn, but this was a slip up on his part, in my opinion.
Alright I'm going to be direct as possible and as quick as possible to the same person who, in traitor gear, a bag filled with an esword, a cham projector and other such goodies, was put into the brig, then once in the brig was freed from it by a traitor with an emag, and as you promptly grabbed you esword and escaped from the brig was put down, only to find yourself thinking "Boy, I sure don't look like a traitor, I better ahelp this." so to be fair, I consider your judgement quite poor to begin with as did the other five plus people in deadchat, but anyways. So as you call this so called fight, this fight where not only did you have cuffs ready in your pocket to put on me in crit, yet made no effort to push and put them on me until I was near death which the former is actually quite effective, nor did you put one of the ample bruisepacks cargo had on me, it's great that Sylas and you seem to think that leaving somebody in such a state and simply bringing them to medbay negates all responsibility of what has and will happen to them but I'd like to humbly disagree with such an opinion, because frankly you were not harmed, you were not even touched, either you or Jessica kept screaming about how an assistant built this thing to begin with as what I can only assume some lame deflection of any blame it might relate to ICly. Anyways now, I was also quite clear with what I was doing, simply trying to reclaim a very important maint, and it was further aided by either you or a cargo tech saying an assistant built this ICly, leaving me to think why would you have such a strong attachment to it? So in general I'd say stop lying and trying to twist things, there was no fight, you murdered somebody who was not taking any offensive stance against you, the escalation was none existent because I did not do anything to escalate it further, you merely jumped to the worst outcome, not like cargo can make stun prods, or you can push and use those cuffs you certainly had as you put them on me as I went into crit, or the other non lethal options you easily had at your disposal.
Last edited by Condensation on Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you were involved in that incident that was first mentioned and then did this (stoping of a construction project) wouldnt that be metagrudging? I agreed that it was valid but what the person did was extreme and some others agree as well. One person even thought you/them shoulve got in trouble for valid hunting. Thats besides the point.
You did not even attempt to run away or fight back which in all honesty is poor rp. My guess is that you were typing up an ahelp or did this to make yourself look better. Nobody, through all of my years of gaming, sits there and takes being injured. Especially not ss13. They either run like hell or try to robust their attacker. Some both. (Which in the previus incident you mentioned I didnt fight back until I was missing two limbs, then was put into crit, ran over by a shuttle in crit, then brain thrown in lava. Despite even going back twoards the jail cells.)
There was an effort to keep you alive as well like I said its my fault I didnt make sure the doctors did their job.
You were all ready given warnings, dragged out without harm so dont say I didnt try.
As for the cables I may or may not had them and may or may not tried to use them. Dont remember. Im assuming I did before but you ran.
Also as mentioned I was not aware of a knocking out feature but even then the way the rules are written it doesnt matter you went into crit only that you died. Now if I beat you to death thats another story but I only beat you till you stopped getting up. There was an effort made to keep you alive.
Now could things have gone better? Yes. But every action cant be thought out before hand.
Stun prod for no reason - powergame
Order tazers for no reason - powergame
Last edited by Snowdragon01 on Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
I don't think this counts as metagrudging, as they didn't go looking for you to harass and as of my knowledge, don't have history of seeking you specifically to metagrudge. The first incident while it was between you and them, was a bit murkier than this considering you were an armed prisoner rushing out with an energy sword after being released by a traitor. That's a situation where fight or flight is really the only responses that can be expected, seeing as it very well can be a life or death situation.
Logs that round showed that the entire escalation was one sided. You punched them into crit, despite them doing no harm to you, no disarms, no grabs. If you chose to make a stun prod to stun and cuff them, it would have been fine in that situation, seeing as it's very clearly having a reason for making them. What I can't agree with is you just dragging them to Medbay and assuming that clears all responsibility. If you have to do that, you should be responsible for getting them out of critical condition or at least making damn sure that they do. Before that point, however, you could have disarm pushed and cuffed, actually made a stun prod since in this situation you would have reason to, or just push them out. Alternatively, could have listened to their grievances and reopened Maintenance up, or expanded into Cargo and not Maintenance.
Hey! I played the warden this round, under the name Cabernet Shortcake. Forgive me if I'd really like to preface this by saying that making a fucking tesla engine in the cargo bay caused me and others a tremendous headache, and that you're very, very lucky that nobody decided to turn the PA to full blast - Because the way you set it up, the PA protruded into maintenance, blocked it entirely, and was accessible from there, outside the cargo bay. I should know that literally anyone was able to walk up to it and turn it to full - It's how I turned it off. Someone had to sit there for much of the round, to make sure nobody freed that while it decayed, you know.
As a matter of personal opinion, I literally cannot wrap my head around the idea that standing there and taking it, probably writing out a descriptive response, is more threatening or makes someone more valid salad than immediately jumping on the WASD and booking it. As someone who does it myself, I respectfully disagree that dialogue, and /me, is "poor rp," and think it's horrible that you'd prefer someone jump straight to "robusting their attacker" as you so eloquently put it. The implication that should someone go unresponsive in combat means you should go harder on them makes me concerned about how you might treat those in SSD, nevermind people taking their time to deliver you a well-written roleplayed interaction.
I also think that unless that round was an absolute adrenaline-addled gorefest (it wasn't) it's ABSOLUTELY your responsibility to ascertain a doctor knows about what you've dragged into the medbay if you want to dust your hands of it. That person is your responsibility until you've handed them off to someone else, and it should be common sense that just fucking leaving them on the floor in an understaffed medbay doesn't get them the immediate attention you put so much passion into making sure they needed.
My experience with you in the round where you were executed by shuttle and tossed into lava was similarly ridiculous from the same warden role. Armed to the teeth in all sorts of iconic traitor gear you claimed ICly you "knew nothing about," your decision, when I left to attend to other tasks, was that your best course of action was to escape. This can cause interesting interactions, and best of all, someone (again Condensation from this thread) was present to conflict with you on it, but what's telling to me is that after getting dumpstered lethally, while your killer and I worked to save your brain from the Det who wanted it destroyed, you handily secured your removal from the round by immediately hopping on the ahelp to get a 'min on them. You know, the same thing you're accusing them of doing? The thing you're saying makes them a valid kill?
It's pretty clear to me personally that you're either bad at being manipulatively persuasive, or have a deeply broken understanding of the consequences of your actions IC. Several times now I've seen you, in your conflicts with players aside from myself, selfantag, go from 0 to 100, and proceed to immediately throw a fit in deadchat about the validity of your opponent's actions when people don't necessarily go out of their way to give you their most compassionate treatment. Even in hindsight, here, in your own ban appeal thread, you don't seem to understand what made the actions against you acceptable. Personally, I'd really like to see you continue to be banned until you can show us some self-awareness regarding how you bring about hostility to your character ICly, and that you understand the events you're describing/the nature of your ban, rather than coming back after a set time, but it's not my decision, and all I can do is let folks know what I've seen of you, and tell you that you need to work on your tesla engines, my dude.
Last edited by CoffeePot on Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
With CoffeePot's input on this, I believe the ban should stick. If you feel this is unjust, please contact Jay, Leon or Kenzie to review this and appeal it if necessary.
