[R3dtaile] Punchies735 - Main Perma Ban

[Punchies735]

BYOND account and character name:

Banning admin: R3dtaile

Ban type/duration: Permanent, Main

Ban reason: (I'll just give the reason I was given when trying to connect)
"Has shown a repeated case of toeing our don't be a creep rule. In this latest incident, has slapped a borg's ass to try and get their attention. After being arrested for it, after being released, spouted "*Technically borg's can't NOT consent". When questioned about this line, said it was something his character would say. "My character would do it" is NOT justification for trying to loophole around rules. Borgs are NOT required to follow lewd law 2's or be law 2'd into erping. In addition, has shown repeatedly to not be acting in good faith, such as the incident a couple days ago, where after LOOC consenting to a lewd but questionable activity (getting their dick cut off by the captain and sec officer whom both asked looc if kroto was okay with it happening) proceeded to spear-head the round into almost causing a mutiny, and again tried to use the "My character wouldnt' be okay with it" excuse to try and justify spear-heading the round over something they had all the power to stop.

Your side of the story: I did a disarm groin attack on a borg, said "OOps" after I just did a normal punch attack against him, although we both knew that it was an attempted ass slap. I attempted to accost him afterwards to join me in cargo, with the intention of telling him that I needed help with a door, however was not able to fully describe it. My intent was to get him into a secluded place near cargo in order to emag him, since I was a traitor, and I needed the access he could provide. The roboticist saw me chasing the borg, and came out of his workplace to flash me, and then hit me with a welding tool into critical. I was arrested afterwards, and brought to the brig, although the security officer let me out. I made a somewhat questionable decision of going to the borg yet again, although I didn't do any sort of ass slapping, only a passive grab againt the borg. I tried to bring him to cargo, and he was seemingly somewhat willing to help, though not entirely. I was arrested by security officers on my way over, and brought back to the brig. The captain brought me into the perma area first, before dragging me out into the brig and asking for the borg to come. The borg came, and explained the situation to him, confirming that I only did it once. The captain then removed one of my arms with his sabre, causing me to go into crit, although he rescued me via the brig medkit. I was let go afterwards, refilled on blood in the medbay, then went over to a small den in maintenance where I kept some contraband. On my way back, I was banned.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I never intended for the borg to be uncomfortable, although I was told it was the AI who actually made the ahelp, by the AI player, and I did stopped doing it after one time. I feel like a perma banning is a bit much for this incident, ALTHOUGH, I do in fact have a history of doing stuff somewhat like this, although not much of it recorded in my admin notes. R3dtaile brought up a previous incident in which I LOOC consented to the captain removing my cock as punishment for saying I stole his coat, although afterwords I ICly complained on the main comms about him doing it, almost inciting a mutiny. I apologize for this, as I was acting with a specific rule in mind that says it allows this: "Additional Information:

Non-consentual scenes that are agreed to out of character are not protected and liable to any in character reprecutions."

Although I can agree it definitely seemed like a move of bad faith, and that an admin's word comes before the rules. I'm also sorry for previous incidents like this in the past, such as when I erased the dorm doors as a clown, and also my unrelated but just as bad incidents, like the one involving the sm shard. I have already dealt with those however, and followed what the admin told me to do. I have never been warned about rear slapping before, although that DEFINITELY isn't an excuse. I apologize for what I did, and I promise to not abuse ERP mechanics in any sort of way, and to keep lewd scenes between LOOC consensual partners in private.

[Putnam]

I'm going to leak admin chat here, because for some reason there was some agreement on this vis a vis the genital mutilation but nobody actually seemed to bring it up:

The RP server had a ruling in july that non-con scenes disrupting the round can be ruled self-antagging:



This particular decision was taken into account for that case.

[Redtail]

Yeah I'm saying no to this, you have too many close calls and toeing the lines. Let alone outright griefing behaviorj. Remember the time you opened a SM shard in the bar? I leave the decision up to a headmin.

[Punchies735]

The SM shard incident was handled and dealt with by Izzy, whom I followed all requests they made of me afterwards, and haven't made a mistake like that in the cargo department since then. I personally feel like this incident is unrelated to the SM shard incident, as it has already been dealt with and is not an obvious repeat of behavior regarding griefing.

[SectoidDan]

Having looked at the logs at your request, I'm satisfied that nobody here is misrepresenting the events of that round in any significant way.

As for the actual meat of this ban, on its own this incident is pretty minor but definitely a straw capable of breaking the camel's back. Frankly everything about this was kind of ridiculous - from slapping a borg's ass (or attempting to) to "get their attention" to the over the top IC responses to that. Even the focus on that IC statement about borgs not being able to not consent is a total red herring, and in my opinion that's not something that would be a problem on its own. Still, as you yourself point out, this comes on top of a LOT of other shit you've pulled, more than what is included in your notes. At some point we have to put our collective foot down and get you to stop, and so here we are.

I'm not strictly opposed to Chase's opinion that this appeal should be denied, but I think changing the perma to a long timed banned instead should be on the cards. Two to four weeks and the understanding that you're on thin ice would be a suitable replacement for the perma in my view, but ultimately it's up to the headmins. Otherwise it's "get a vouch" time.

[HazelBailey]

I wont go over all of your notes/bans here, but you have quite a few that take the ERP related nature of the server in bad faith (I'll post them here if you want, but by default I avoid sharing anyone's notes/bans in public). As a result of this, I'm firmly set in favor of not lifting your ban any time in the near future. You've had many, many chances to improve in that front, but still didn't. In my opinion, it got well past the realm of acceptable a while ago.

[Punchies735]

I would be fine with sharing the notes and bans here, if you would.

[HazelBailey]

So the biggest thing to note about this is that these are only your notes related to the server's ERP aspect that specifically break the "Dont be a creep" rule. This is one of our bigger rules that we take very seriously. You have many more notes not related to this rule and quite a few make me wonder how you didnt catch a ban before this.

discord ID Krotoker, aka Punchies#2511 has been given a final warning on their behavior. I've only actually talked to them IC once, and that was because they actively refused to do anything as the QM. They will post garbage on #ss13-main and now they're sending DMs to people when they don't want porn, and threatening to post more." MrJWhit's note, but wasn't able to hop on at the time to apply it.

This, I would've banned you for on the spot if I'd caught wind of this. Discord itself forbids this behavior and users that are reported for breaking this rule tend to have their accounts deactivated.

Attempted to replace the reagent in the pool with hexacrocin because they 'thought it'd be funny'. Applying a day ban as a final warning to cease such or simillar 'pranks' / behaviour.

This is less severe as far as notes go, but in the grand scheme, looks a lot worse for you, given your other notes related to rule 9. We don't allow people to randomly drug others with any of our ERP related chems. Period.

Im gonna break your ban into two parts, given it mentions two separate incidents.

In addition, has shown repeatedly to not be acting in good faith, such as the incident a couple days ago , where after LOOC consenting to a lewd but questionable activity (getting their dick cut off by the captain and a sec officer whom both asked looc if kroto was okay with it happening) proceeded to spear-head the round to almost causing a mutiny, and again tried to use the "My character wouldnt' be okay with it" excuse to try and justify spear-heading the round over something they had all the power to stop.

This particular incident breaks both our "dont be a creep" rule and our "dont be a dick" rule, the second one moreso. Yes, the sec officer is the one that originally suggested the castration, but afterwards, you told them you were fine with it in LOOC, then proceeded to scream over comms about it, forcing security and command players that werent directly involved in the incident to deal with the results of your actions.

Has shown a repeated case of toeing our don't be a creep rule. In this latest incident, has slapped a borg's ass to try and get their attention. After being arrested for it, after being released, spouted ""Technically borg's can't NOT consent" . When questioned about this line, said it's something his character would say. "My character would do it" is NOT justification for trying to loophole around rules. Borgs are NOT required to follow lewd law 2's or be law 2'd into erping.

And finally we get to this incident. The straw that broke the camel's back, so to say. As has been said by admins in the past, ass slapping is viewed as something we prevent when dealing with rule 9 cases, espeically if the target isnt okay with it. The "borgs cant not consent" line is extremely creepy and just about anywhere you go, joking about consent is not okay at all, and by extension, obviously wouldnt be allowed here, either. Additionally, the "It's something my character would do" is not, and never will be a valid excuse. You control your character. You write their personality and how they behave. You make the conscious decision to do something against the rules. You are the one that acquired multiple notes in the span of just over a month, some of which I would have banned you for on the spot. You made these decisions all on your own, and now you're the one that has to face punishment for it. I am not in favor of an unban without a vouch

[Punchies735]

Alright, I'll address some of these notes. For the first one
"discord ID Krotoker, aka Punchies#2511 has been given a final warning on their behavior. I've only actually talked to them IC once, and that was because they actively refused to do anything as the QM. They will post garbage on #ss13-main and now they're sending DMs to people when they don't want porn, and threatening to post more." MrJWhit's note, but wasn't able to hop on at the time to apply it."
This note actually has inaccurate information, a single person dared me to send them furry porn, I sent them it, they told me to delete it afterwards, then I did. I've talked about MrJwhit about this note before, and they seemed to agree that it was a miscommunication, but said in order for it to be removed I would need to go through the appeal process. I didn't go through it right away, as I felt that it was mostly dealt with, but I was wrong. Please ask MrJWhit about this note, and also here are some screenshots of the incident on discord.
https://i.gyazo.com/b884a9e2bb9f80c458b ... 1124fa.png
https://i.gyazo.com/c97983eef1e744ed8dd ... aa46ff.png

Now for the second note,
"Attempted to replace the reagent in the pool with hexacrocin because they 'thought it'd be funny'. Applying a day ban as a final warning to cease such or simillar 'pranks' / behaviour."
I apologized for attempting to do this, and took the entire ban. I can not really defend this action, it was wrong of me to attempt to do this, and I never messed with non-consensually giving people chems afterwards. However I do note that I did not actually manage to put it in the pool, as I was stopped by security before it happened, but it is the intention that counts.

For the third part,
"In addition, has shown repeatedly to not be acting in good faith, such as the incident a couple days ago , where after LOOC consenting to a lewd but questionable activity (getting their dick cut off by the captain and a sec officer whom both asked looc if kroto was okay with it happening) proceeded to spear-head the round to almost causing a mutiny, and again tried to use the "My character wouldnt' be okay with it" excuse to try and justify spear-heading the round over something they had all the power to stop."
When I took this action, I was using one of the rules I found on main's rule page.
"Additional Information:

Non-consentual scenes that are agreed to out of character are not protected and liable to any in character reprecutions."
I assumed that since this was on the rule page for main, that it was accurate and I wouldn't be punished for my actions. The admin warned me afterwards, however I had no idea that this rule was inaccurate until then. I apologize for doing that, and have tried not to break it since then. However I feel that it isn't necessarily justified to punish someone for thinking that something on the main rule page, was an actual rule.

Now for the fourth part,
"Has shown a repeated case of toeing our don't be a creep rule. In this latest incident, has slapped a borg's ass to try and get their attention. After being arrested for it, after being released, spouted ""Technically borg's can't NOT consent" . When questioned about this line, said it's something his character would say. "My character would do it" is NOT justification for trying to loophole around rules. Borgs are NOT required to follow lewd law 2's or be law 2'd into erping."
This did happen, and I do apologize for not LOOC asking the borg before I attempted the ass slap. However I would like to mention that it was not a /me ass slap, or a mechanical one, it was a regular attack that we both assumed was an ass slap, this is semantics though. Also, to be specific I never law two'd the borg to engage in erp with me. The borg was also not the one who made the ahelp, from what I heard, it was the AI. For the thing I said on the radio, I've never been bwoinked or warned against saying things like that on comms before, and assumed it was fine to joke about that. Since it was an IC joke on the radio, I assumed it would have IC repercussions, and it seems like an IC issue to me, however the admins word does go first.

That should be the end of my rant, thank you for reading.

[Owai]

I just want to start this off by saying I have a bias towards Kroto. I like them, I really do, but I know they've tiptoed the lines a bit when it comes to sexual behavior. Also keep in mind, that as the average player, I have -no- idea what kind of punishments other players involved in these things have received, I can only comment on information available to me.

The only reason I'm posting here at all is that I've asked Derkuleen if it was fine to (as it's mostly an admin matter), and I feel that some of the events and notes here have a significant amount of missing information.

Putnam's Post:
If this was seriously used as justification or referenced in this decision then you need to start updating rules. You also shouldn't be using RP rulings for Main, especially when main has a rule specifically stating the exact opposite. Along with that, if admins pass judgement on something like this, you need to add it to the actual rules page. Players shouldn't be held responsible for not following everything posted, especially when it's on a server they don't even play on. Say you ping everyone after the ruling. Ok, cool, people are updated on it. Now, what if someone joins citadel afterward? Oh boy, ghost rulings.

-Please- Update your rules.

Castration Round:
It's my opinion, that the event where he almost started a riot, is fault on both sides. Doing something like that is pretty nasty, and if people hear about it, they're gonna get pissy. I feel like the people doing it knew full well it wasn't for a sexual scene of any kind, it was for the meme of castrating a kobold. I talked to him after the fact, and told him that if he does -anything- like that again, he should include in his LOOC that he's going to start shit. The people involved should have known -something- was going to happen, who doesn't start screaming about shitcurity as soon as they're brigged? I feel mixed on the LOOC given. On one hand, it's a story everyone involved is going to remember. On the other, it's a bit of a dick move, but he acted appropriately IC to the events happening.

Discord DMs:
This note should have been removed, if you dare someone to send you porn, expect to be sent porn. I was told that Kroto and Justin discussed and cleared this up already, I have no idea why he should still have that.

Boys Club:
I was there, the captain was literally pushing people to beat the shit out of him and possibly mutilate/kill him for it, and allowed people in cargo to buy and keep weapons. When the weapons were reported, they did -nothing- to stop it, and continued to encourage people to go after Kroto "As long as they don't kill him." The warden decided that it was a massive violation of space law and protected Kroto against the captain and cargo in security. That specific captain, I feel, oversteps their bounds a -lot-, and I've had issues with them in other rounds as well where they've over-escalated because they're in a position of power. Captains should -not- be encouraging people to injure or kill other heads of staff. If a Head of Staff is not fit, you don't encourage people mutiny them, you consult CC, other heads, or demote them. If it were any other person other than the Captain encouraging people to cause harm to a head of staff they would have been eating a note or ban for it.
~~~~~~~~~~
The event that brought this ban into place, where he says ""Technically borg's can't NOT consent" feels double-edged. It feels like more of a joke to me, rather than a statement that you're allowed to non-con borgs with law 2 (Because you're not.) I understand it made someone feel uncomfortable, but I don't feel like that was the intent at all. I wasn't there, so I don't have much more to say about it.
~~~~~~~~~~
Summary:
Overall, yes, Kroto has done some dumb stuff, we all do some stuff, but I feel a lot of weight is being put on situations where more people are at fault than him. I don't think a permaban is appropriate, but getting smacked over the head with a week or two while being to straighten up or it sticks seems fine.