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Snowdragon01
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Post by Snowdragon01 »

As stated by DeathRide due to some reasons this cant happen.

This is both designed to help the admin and player. Let me tell you first what it is and then why it would help.


After banning a player the admin must post on the forums the player being banned, why, round ID and time of incident with all evidence to support the admin's claims. if there is no evidence it is thrown out of the window. I highly suggest using a shadowplay program to passively record and upload videos of the players actions. Now I know admins can't be everywhere at once thats not what I'm asking. Thats why you should post logs of the events happening with the ahelp conversation that lead you to the ban.
Players can use video evidence to request and report bans as well thorough a similar evidence as well as further provide evidence from a different point of view. Although this would have to be encouraged for players to do so.



Why it would help Both sides
* You can't argue logs easily and you definetly can't argue a video and if you do and they have a stupid response, say "ban stays" and lock the thread.
* Stop deadlocks. No more arguing he and she did this and that. 
* Requires proof to keep a ban up in case the server has or will get any admin abusers. Not saying there is just if there are.
* Players can catch things that might have been miss and end situations faster while providing another point of view.
* less shitmin comments, more general fun interaction. 



Proof of the system working.

It's worked well in other gaming communities, specifically Arma life servers.  RecklessGaming network, if still alive is an example of one. Players can and are encouraged to record their sessions with programs like shadowplay in order to protect themselves and report other admins.


that it. Pretty straightforward and not really much for me to argue about. You either like it or don't.
Last edited by Snowdragon01 on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ragolution
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RE: Evidence only reporting suggestion.

Post by Ragolution »

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

deathride58
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RE: Evidence only reporting suggestion.

Post by deathride58 »

Aight, so three primary issues with the idea.

1: Sensitive information like IPs, CIDs, alternate ckeys, etc, constantly pops up in the chatbox for admins on a server as public as Citadel. By forcing all admins to be recording all of the time, and to *always* post the video evidence whenever they ban *anyone,* that's going to be passively leaking every single bit of that information. There's no way around that.

2: Logs already show the majority of the meaningful information every round, and bans *always* log the round ID in which they took place with our tools system. But guess what? Logs aren't perfect, and they don't show every tiny bit of information that happened each round, like fiddling with air alarms, for example. Now take into consideration that 90% of administrative actions take place *after* things have been done and reported by players via ahelping. That means it goes back to square one of "he said/she said", since any random joe could siphon the air in the dorms, then claim their fingerprints were on the air alarm because they were trying to repressurize the room, thus getting free from a ban for griefing that otherwise would have stuck, simply because the video showed a lack of EMPs in the logs, and showed that the only solid proof was their name pressing the "panic siphon" button, according to the href logs, but didn't show them approaching the air alarm.

3: Hard drive space and the fact that most of us here are running literal toasters for computers. Personally, I store a *lot* of important documents on my computers, to the point where it reaches a solid 100 GB. But every single round of SS13 that I've recorded is roughly 3GB large. Having to store every single round of SS13 as recordings on my PC on the off chance that I'd have to tell some random shmuck "Hey, yeah, you were indeed the one that siphoned dorms" would do nothing but cause problems for me in the real world, since I've got bills to pay, loans to pay off, taxes to keep track of, and various other things that I'm unable to mention due to NDAs. Recording is also a giant performance sink, and not everyone's gonna have an Nvidia GPU in their rig to use shadowplay. That means that requiring recordings of every single round would hurt performance to the point where the game's nearly unplayable for some of our staff here. That means things like griefing would be much harder to take care of if recording were mandatory.

That being said, video evidence definitely is a helpful thing that is always appreciated, but making it a hard requirement for bans to stick at all is just gonna result in most admins here being unable to do their "job", and is going to be leaking a *shitton* of confidential info.

Also, all rounds are logged by the server, and round IDs are logged with every single ban for the sake of checking said round logs in the future. While round logs don't show every tiny little tidbit that happens, they do show the vast majority of the important information that folks typically get banned for.

Snowdragon01
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RE: Evidence only reporting suggestion.

Post by Snowdragon01 »

deathride58 wrote: Aight, so three primary issues with the idea.

1: Sensitive information like IPs, CIDs, alternate ckeys, etc, constantly pops up in the chatbox for admins on a server as public as Citadel. By forcing all admins to be recording all of the time, and to *always* post the video evidence whenever they ban *anyone,* that's going to be passively leaking every single bit of that information. There's no way around that.

2: Logs already show the majority of the meaningful information every round, and bans *always* log the round ID in which they took place with our tools system. But guess what? Logs aren't perfect, and they don't show every tiny bit of information that happened each round, like fiddling with air alarms, for example. Now take into consideration that 90% of administrative actions take place *after* things have been done and reported by players via ahelping. That means it goes back to square one of "he said/she said", since any random joe could siphon the air in the dorms, then claim their fingerprints were on the air alarm because they were trying to repressurize the room, thus getting free from a ban for griefing that otherwise would have stuck, simply because the video showed a lack of EMPs in the logs, and showed that the only solid proof was their name pressing the "panic siphon" button, according to the href logs, but didn't show them approaching the air alarm.

3: Hard drive space and the fact that most of us here are running literal toasters for computers. Personally, I store a *lot* of important documents on my computers, to the point where it reaches a solid 100 GB. But every single round of SS13 that I've recorded is roughly 3GB large. Having to store every single round of SS13 as recordings on my PC on the off chance that I'd have to tell some random shmuck "Hey, yeah, you were indeed the one that siphoned dorms" would do nothing but cause problems for me in the real world, since I've got bills to pay, loans to pay off, taxes to keep track of, and various other things that I'm unable to mention due to NDAs. Recording is also a giant performance sink, and not everyone's gonna have an Nvidia GPU in their rig to use shadowplay. That means that requiring recordings of every single round would hurt performance to the point where the game's nearly unplayable for some of our staff here. That means things like griefing would be much harder to take care of if recording were mandatory.

That being said, video evidence definitely is a helpful thing that is always appreciated, but making it a hard requirement for bans to stick at all is just gonna result in most admins here being unable to do their "job", and is going to be leaking a *shitton* of confidential info.

Also, all rounds are logged by the server, and round IDs are logged with every single ban for the sake of checking said round logs in the future. While round logs don't show every tiny little tidbit that happens, they do show the vast majority of the important information that folks typically get banned for.
you have good points. But I feel point three has something to be addressed
The point is whenever there is an issue you'd just create a highlight clip and save it. The rest can be deleted.Heck even upload the clip and boom no more space.

I just thought maybe it would've been possible and helped. Ah well thanks for taking the time to read DeathRide.

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