[RP] Hjorthorn - Admin power abuse

GrayRachnid
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Re: [RP] Hjorthorn - Admin power abuse

Post by GrayRachnid »

That does not resolve my complaint since I expect action from a head admin but thank you
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Silicons
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Re: [RP] Hjorthorn - Admin power abuse

Post by Silicons »

ill be honest (as someone who's usually very against any interference involving your own character because 95% of the time i don't think people know where the line to stop should be drawn)
just hinting to your own death while questionable is frankly not the most questionable thing i've seen on rp (given that, right now, it's a perma-sextended server)

but
Line 751: [2021-06-16 14:02:00.669] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : damn this captain is dead
Line 760: [2021-06-16 14:02:18.662] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : should i do somehting about it
Line 807: [2021-06-16 14:03:35.161] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) :
Line 859: [2021-06-16 14:04:58.881] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : im still a trial admin im learning all the buttons still
Line 899: [2021-06-16 14:06:25.727] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) :
Line 900: [2021-06-16 14:06:33.414] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : if they make it to the office first
Line 913: [2021-06-16 14:07:02.513] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : knowing junko they were probably after the ashtray that spawns near there
Line 919: [2021-06-16 14:07:15.154] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : ive seen em have it in their HOP office before
Line 932: [2021-06-16 14:08:17.873] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : i hope theyre smart enough to put in oxy meds before trying to use the defib
Line 941: [2021-06-16 14:08:40.265] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : they arent!
Line 949: [2021-06-16 14:09:15.424] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : not sure actually
Line 951: [2021-06-16 14:09:21.332] ADMIN: DSAY: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : but you can CPR to circulate blood

don't do this
it doesn't matter if it's obviously you, if you're already involving yourself in your own demise/character issues please don't do anything that would hint you aren't the character
this makes it even more questionable


that and there's a lot of better ways to hint that you're dead than
say
Line 834: [2021-06-16 14:04:17.947] ADMIN: Announce: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) : We have noticed your captain's suit tracker had been displaying 'deceased' for some time now, figured we should let you know.
Line 849: [2021-06-16 14:04:41.754] ADMIN: Hjorthorn/(Junko Kanegawa) has created a command report: We have noticed your captain's suit tracker had been displaying 'deceased' for some time now, figured we should let you know.

just subtling someone to read the sensors would have sufficed, etc etc.

i'm not necessarily saying this is a good thing to promote, but since rp is hilariously laxed (for better or worse) regarding "losing" (too laxed for me but i'm not the one running the show so) i figured i'd ignore the "you got people to come revive eyou as an admin" entirely and more focus on the method of doing it, because the method of doing something seems to have been a running and persistent issue on rp to the point where i have to do this 3-4 times a week at this point.

tl;dr can y'all like, take some other perspectives in mind before just doing things and making things look bad, that'd be nice.

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Captain277
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Re: [RP] Hjorthorn - Admin power abuse

Post by Captain277 »

As it currently exists, the Citadel RP server is permanently Extended, and the rounds run for three hours minimum to five hours maximum. Due to that, a player that dies in the first hour without the means for them to be noticed essentially faces the prospect of spending up to five hours lost somewhere. Most people are only around for two or three rounds per day. This isn't Main, or /tg/, where a round lasts an hour and a half and there's a reasonable turnover rate. It's also a more low-stakes gameplay environment where the need for strict rules regarding direct round intervention are more relaxed. It has been standard practice for some time to allow a significant - but not round ruining - length of time to pass for a body to be discovered organically. This is typically about ten minutes to an hour.

The hypothetical comparison of a player ICK-OCKing their death isn't comparable in this instance. If a player asked in OOC to be revived, that is bad, but players tend to talk in this other place called Dead Chat first. Admins coordinate with ghosted players frequently regarding their expectations around recovery. The original code system had Transcore alerts set, which alerted the crew over the radio ten minutes after death. The more proactive efforts of Admins mirrors that exact practice.

If Hjor had intentionally used the Server Announcement button to this end, it would be comparable. However, they're a Trial Admin and our interface is notoriously tricky to master. Ideally another Admin would have done the announcement, or Subtle Messaged someone to check sensors - however, there were no Medical crew. A general ping that the Captain's showing up dead on sensors without providing a location would be ideal, as this is how the Transcore system used to manage it.

I have a genuine issue with how Hjor attempted to obfuscate their own involvement in Deadchat, and that will be addressed, but it's secondary to the primary concern here.

When we introduce changes to the gameplay to increase the stakes, I'll circle back around to this level of interventionism and address it then. From my perspective this is established general practice, and the issue is that the execution was sloppy - which is, again, to be expected from a brand new Admin. I'm not recommending any administrative action against Hjorthorn. I will second Kevin's cautioning of the entire Administrative team, however, regarding optics. We should work to be more mindful of how our actions are perceived by the playerbase at large.

GrayRachnid
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Re: [RP] Hjorthorn - Admin power abuse

Post by GrayRachnid »

Your point of view and context of the server atmosphere is something I can understand and relate with. I don't think it's necessarily bad to help players bring their characters back into the round during lowpop or any other time of the day where involvement in the round becomes impossible.(granted, I believe that this isn't necessary in the first place considering the fact there's no respawn timer but people love playing certain characters and sometimes deaths are a bit bullshit.) Nonetheless, my issue, as I explained to Nicc is the fact that an admin used this for themselves. Not a player they spoke to in deadchat, themselves.

Yes, they're a trial admin and I also wouldn't expect them to be perfect off the get-go but I am disappointed and annoyed at the way Nicc was defending them. I wouldn't care if this ended with a slap of the wrist at the beginning considering the admin themselves admitted to the mistake. Nicc's attitude in this complaint is abhorrent and is an example why people never have hope in admin complaints and consider them to be a waste of time. In the whole history of Citadel, very very few admin complaint have ever lead to a clear transparent outcome.

While out of scope of this complaint, if you're going to use the excuse of addressing interventionism later then I think it's important that you address staff conduct sooner. Attitude and conduct which pushes away people from criticizing others is what lead to insular communities that scare away new players. In the same breath, more transparency in regards to how staff operate is also necessary in my opinion(With this case as an example, I was not aware that admins regularly helped players who died terribly). The strike system is also a thing listed under Citadel admin policy and it would be great to see it in function. Cheers.
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