[Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

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Papalus_Himself
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[Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Papalus_Himself »

BYOND ckey: Lord_Papalus
Character name: Valvatorez Aiur, Assistant Machine Architect NQ-Z 7801
Discord username (+user id): Lord_Papalus#8971
How long have you played on Citadel?: Since 2018 with a break (forced onto me via a premanent ban, for which I thank Y'all, I went to anger management in that time) sometime near 2019
How long have you played SS13?: Since 2018 or 2017, can't remember
What is your timezone/general hours of activity?: Generally? Whenever I'm off work.
Previous SS13 related admin experience: Sojourn: From Moderator to Headmin, Skyrat: From Moderator to Game Admin, as well as Head of Entry Applications and a Member of Staff Improvement Team
Previous non-SS13 related admin experience: None
Current administrators who have agreed to support your application: None, as far as I'm concerned. I didn't ask any. Should I?
Reason for application: Well, in the timezone that I am in (Read as, Europe) there's barely any staff online, and often there are issues that require admin powers to fix.

1. How would you engage with two players having an out of character altercation?

This is a fun questio, and a tricky one. Well, that depends on how much it's affecting the community and if that altrecation involves the server or not. If the altrecation is something between the two players, like, metaphorically speaking, one being pro-skub and the other being anti-skub, the easiest and best solution in my humble opinion, is to tell them to can it, as staff should not get involved in player's private lives as I'm concerned. If the situation involves server's developement or the community as a whole, the best solution, in my opinion and experience, is to take those two into a private chat to hear both of the sides and attempt to find a solution, rather than outright slapping a ban on two. However, if one player is claiming the other is doing something that breaks the rules with no evidence, I'd ask them to kindly keep quiet untill they provide evidence, as no evidence means no rule was broken.

2. What should an admin do if they're involved in a situation that needs admin intervention?

As I see it? If the situation is not being handled by another admin, they need to call one in to handle it, and behave like a player rather than admin. Let the other one handle it, as the one involved might be biased towards their own innocence.

3. How should an admin determine in what way to punish someone who breaks the rules?

In my experience it depends on the rule broken, the way it was broken, and if it's the first time that person breaks the rules. Sure, rules like the Age restriction should be a ban for (as I understand it's handled on citadel) the duration that person was playing on the server while underage, however rules spamming and don't be a dick can often be fixed with a stern talking to if it's the first offense, and a progressively worse ban if it's a repeat offender.

4. Under what conditions should an admin de-admin themselves while playing?

Head of Staff during an event that might involve them, while they're playing an antagonist or while they're playing a Security character.

5. What is expected of an admin on Citadel?

Professionalism, being unbiased and to spare their time to actually do their job, I suppose, though the way the question is worded confuses me.

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Jaybirdnerd
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Re: [Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Jaybirdnerd »

Hello Pap,

I'd like to open my response to your application by immediately addressing the elephant in the room: Despite your answers being the exact things we look for in an administrative application, the time zone potentially filling a needed slot for administrators, and your past history as a Moderator/Headmin/etc. on other servers I am personally unable to overlook
the past transgressions you've shown in the discord server as well as the game server.

To begin the explanation as to 'why' I'm personally against this: We need to take a look at how you've handled yourself over the past however long you've been a part of our community. As a start, we have had to get onto you a handful of times over hate-speech related to other races, creeds, sexes, etc. as it goes against our terms of service and rules on our server. As well as that, you seem to have a history of being aggressive with other people and speaking in a generally aggressive tone. As administrators, we cannot be harsh or rude to our players (without justifiable reasoning) as it generally makes us look bad to the community. To have someone on our team, representing our team as a member of the administrative side of the field, be aggressive with the players is a bad thing as the last thing we want is to seem as though we are harsh and unapproachable to the whole of the players.

As well as the aggression and the hate-speech, I feel it relevant to turn your attention to how you view fellow administrators involved with ongoing coding projects and how you've treated them in the past. Ultimately, you have a track record with screaming at admins to fix something despite it (mostly) not being a part of our job description. This in and of itself is a full red flag as it shows you do not understand the role of an administrator and what our job duties fully entail.

Overall; The aggression you show, the consistent hate-speech and political posts, as well as a full lack of respect for and understanding of the administrative job position in terms of coding and development has netted all three red flags for me. This is an immediate -1 on my book.

My advice: Take what I say here with a grain of salt, but ultimately if you do want an administrative position here you need to learn to follow the rules closely and respect your peers. This doesn't mean act kind only to administrators or when they are around but rather means that you need to learn to respect others as a whole and try to be a bit kinder to your fellow man. When and if you show significant change in these fields listed, I'll consider swinging around and giving you a point towards becoming an administrator. Otherwise as it stands your responses to the questions given seem a fair bit hypocritical and as if you're saying what we want to hear in order to get in.

All of the above out of the way, I would hope you can understand why I'm giving you a -1 on this application.

Thank you for applying,

~Jay

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Papalus_Himself
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Re: [Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Papalus_Himself »

Oh no, don't worry I precisely expected this answer, I'm just waiting to see what Kevin has to say.

Silicons
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Re: [Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Silicons »

oh hey it's been 14 days

as i said with lordme's application,
we're a powderkeg community with a terrible track record and perception of our administration.

you help
you frankly do more to help than many active players and even staff, as far as i'm concerned you're one of my favorites as a maintainer, since you do things that are long term beneficial to the continued survival of the codebase and server as a concept.
we don't agree on the direction of what should be done for the code but ultimately you are a boon for the server

this however doesn't mean i can vouch for you or think you would be good staff, at current day.
staff is a whole other game to play. we have enough problems already, and within the past few months, well.
- you put on the attitude of you hating everyone else on the server
- you put on the show that you are going to leave and don't care about the server
- you complain of serious allegations and refuse to take screenshots or provide proof because it's `not your job to`. not even hurt feelings but things that sound utterly horrid to imply we're allowing to go on, yet as i've explained plenty of times in the past, you will continue to harp on it without being willing to provide the necessary evidence for us to do something about it. i'm more than fine with someone setting the keg on fire, i'm less than fine with "i know of a problem but i won't tell you because it's not my job to and i will instead rub it in your face"-type behaviors. it's frankly exhausting to deal with, and makes everyone who actually has a crap to give about the server and aren't here to powertrip have a harder time because now we lack crucial data we need to do our jobs.

ironically, from a purely mathematical administrative perspective i think you'd be a good admin if i completely ignore any of the above.
i can't do that, though, because not everyone has infinite patience and is a burned out husk like myself who won't give a crap when suddenly an admin is doing these things instead of a player.
this is also difficult to think about because i recognize my own joking can be more than abrasive at times if someone hasn't gotten to know me

but lastly, and honestly personally the biggest question, given i don't think you are incapable of, if you actively accepted and chose to, treating people better.
apathy is the death of things.
as of recent i have had no reason to believe most of the server realistically cares.
the state of development and who actually works on things instead of idly complain without using any effort to come up with a solution for the frankly dire situation is proof of it.
our staff team is probably the most apathetic by sheer strength of their collective burnout compared to practically all of space station. it is frankly, in my opinion, a big part of why we can't grow out of our shell. shit progress is better than no progress at all. people are tired, people are afraid to act, or people just don't care anymore because they are waiting for someone else to drive the server's direction.

you show more apathy than anyone else here.
why then, do you want to be staff? what is the point of hiring someone who displays a public facade of loathing everyone and the server? what do we have to gain?

i don't want a "there are problems that need fixing and people are afk". it takes us five minutes to ban someone (much to my chagrin in the past when bans went out too wantonly). it takes five seconds for you to screenshot someone being awful and make a support ticket.
i'm not worried about admin coverage, if all else fails i'll literally panic bunker most of the VPNs out there out of the server if i have to, as a dev.
why do you want to help?

Solaris_Shade
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Re: [Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Solaris_Shade »

Ciggi, when I first met you I thought you where one of the biggest assholes I've ever met online or in person.
After spending a few years here I know this.
You ARE the biggest asshole I've ever had the displeasure of knowing.
But you don't discriminate who to be an asshole to.
You're fair like that.

At the end of the day I will take a known asshole over an unknown quantity most days out of the week.
+1

Silly-Cons brings up the good, bad and the rub that I guess comes from being a headmin are solid questions that would be interesting to see your take on them.
Another person who has yet to appear is Skipp, I believe they ARE the headmin of RP so their inquisitorial questioning would be very valid.

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Papalus_Himself
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Re: [Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Papalus_Himself »

Silicons wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:54 pm
oh hey it's been 14 days

as i said with lordme's application,
we're a powderkeg community with a terrible track record and perception of our administration.

you help
you frankly do more to help than many active players and even staff, as far as i'm concerned you're one of my favorites as a maintainer, since you do things that are long term beneficial to the continued survival of the codebase and server as a concept.
we don't agree on the direction of what should be done for the code but ultimately you are a boon for the server

this however doesn't mean i can vouch for you or think you would be good staff, at current day.
staff is a whole other game to play. we have enough problems already, and within the past few months, well.
- you put on the attitude of you hating everyone else on the server
- you put on the show that you are going to leave and don't care about the server
- you complain of serious allegations and refuse to take screenshots or provide proof because it's `not your job to`. not even hurt feelings but things that sound utterly horrid to imply we're allowing to go on, yet as i've explained plenty of times in the past, you will continue to harp on it without being willing to provide the necessary evidence for us to do something about it. i'm more than fine with someone setting the keg on fire, i'm less than fine with "i know of a problem but i won't tell you because it's not my job to and i will instead rub it in your face"-type behaviors. it's frankly exhausting to deal with, and makes everyone who actually has a crap to give about the server and aren't here to powertrip have a harder time because now we lack crucial data we need to do our jobs.

ironically, from a purely mathematical administrative perspective i think you'd be a good admin if i completely ignore any of the above.
i can't do that, though, because not everyone has infinite patience and is a burned out husk like myself who won't give a crap when suddenly an admin is doing these things instead of a player.
this is also difficult to think about because i recognize my own joking can be more than abrasive at times if someone hasn't gotten to know me

but lastly, and honestly personally the biggest question, given i don't think you are incapable of, if you actively accepted and chose to, treating people better.
apathy is the death of things.
as of recent i have had no reason to believe most of the server realistically cares.
the state of development and who actually works on things instead of idly complain without using any effort to come up with a solution for the frankly dire situation is proof of it.
our staff team is probably the most apathetic by sheer strength of their collective burnout compared to practically all of space station. it is frankly, in my opinion, a big part of why we can't grow out of our shell. shit progress is better than no progress at all. people are tired, people are afraid to act, or people just don't care anymore because they are waiting for someone else to drive the server's direction.

you show more apathy than anyone else here.
why then, do you want to be staff? what is the point of hiring someone who displays a public facade of loathing everyone and the server? what do we have to gain?

i don't want a "there are problems that need fixing and people are afk". it takes us five minutes to ban someone (much to my chagrin in the past when bans went out too wantonly). it takes five seconds for you to screenshot someone being awful and make a support ticket.
i'm not worried about admin coverage, if all else fails i'll literally panic bunker most of the VPNs out there out of the server if i have to, as a dev.
why do you want to help?
Might be prudent to start with a little bit of background, I've been on citadel since 2018 as you well know, Kevin, and since day 1 I've felt that I'm a triangle piece in a square hole. I fit, but only when hit with a hammer and forced into place. Might be that my perception is skewed, but from my perspective it seems that the Community accepts things they can understand easily, and pushes away things they do not want to understand, or things that will take too long to break through. I've made friends here, do not get me wrong, People like Askaris, Tech, Solaris, Zandario and You, yourself, are a boon that I consider friends, though I might show it in a way that I know from living in East Europe as a borderline gopnik for my entire life. What I'm getting at here, is that people say they're accepting of everyone new, and they accept people whenever they see fit, even if that acceptance and support leads to people like that one guy who started sending his manifesto to people, as well as Pipe Bomb recipes. It's unheard of in other communities. That's why I was apathetic and wanted to leave, but as is my M.O. rather than sulking about issues none other wants to fix, I slapped myself and got to work to fix what is possible to be fixed. That's why I want to help.

What I'm seeing here is the apparent lack of staff that cooperates with the community. Sure, You might do it, but Your focus is on the server as a developer, not an admin (as you said it yourself in the past), and a few others might do it, but most players here do not trust Staff, and consider most a part of a metagang that's against them. People active on the discord server usually trust you, but some are active on discord a few times, and spend most of their time in game, and see things that they want to see. I got messaged by different people asking me which admin, and I quote, "Is the sanest and less corrupt" since they couldn't trust anyone. There's no connection between staff and most of the community, and that shows. I believe that with my experience holding an entire community together through hard times (read as: Sojourn during major developement changes) I can help rectify that, or at the very least die trying. Oh, and I obviously won't put who messaged me here, since I value their privacy. If any of you are reading this, kiss kiss.

Jokes aside, I am a spitefull litle fuck, but I do that to people that do that to me. I do not judge, I do not hate people based on their beliefs, gender, or whatever else. Hell, some concepts that I was accused to be ignorant about I genuinely cannot wrap my head around because nobody wants to spend the time to explain them to me.

And to answer another thing that people pointed out to me is that I yell at staff, most commonly coders. I do that with most in a joking manner, with the exception of You, Kevin, and Zandario (who literally asked to be yelled at so he can focus on fixing issues because he might forget). I also said it multiple times that, if what I do insults someone, they can message me directly and We can figure something out.

Shortform for your question then:
I want to help because I see lack of cooperation and lack of trust between community and staff.

Silicons
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Re: [Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Silicons »

triangle piece in a square hole. I fit, but only when hit with a hammer and forced into place
don't let the discord attitude people have towards me fool you for we are more alike than you think.
it seems that the Community accepts things they can understand easily, and pushes away things they do not want to understand, or things that will take too long to break through
you're correct. it's why a lot of concepts have failed to take off time and time again.
What I'm getting at here, is that people say they're accepting of everyone new, and they accept people whenever they see fit, even if that acceptance and support leads to people like that one guy who started sending his manifesto to people
people weren't..
really accepting of them.
it's unironically more of an "administration including myself are unwilling to jump the gun on QC in the hopes people improve".
iirc they weren't the worst (they were on par with that racist white haired catgirl) (man i'm full of out of context quotes today). not really instant QC material, but they were long on the march to removal even before that.
community didn't accept them, we just generally want to give people a chance where we can.
admittedly i've rarely had the pleasure of seeing it pay off when I decide to let someone hopefully prove that they're not awful but hey, that's just servers. You're either a walled garden or you get the occasional idiot running across your lawn and shitting on it.
What I'm seeing here is the apparent lack of staff that cooperates with the community
you know
we tried "player rep" once.
it never really went well, after the first round of them (blackmajor)
it's a shame, because it's a decent concept for furry ERP servers as a certain other one has proven.
it shouldn't even be necessary because optimally admins would be approachable but that's not always the case.

overall you hit the nail with most of the issues.
that said i am one not primarily in charge of dealing with rp staff and two we can't well accept someone in if there's overwhelming outcry from the rest of the staff team.
still though, frankly, you'd be good staff if not for that. probably. keep in mind that again, players like an accepting environment. it's less we don't care and more that's kind of basic administration for any mainstream and non-deranged server.

ultimately the chance of this application going through is slimmer than none due to the above. still though, you should take a more active role in the community. you've done a very good job organizing sergal/whatever lore. you're seen as an asshole IC by many but you've also left a positive impact on engineering.

citadel is always a wrong peg for the hole situation, it's just how much you're willing to compromise to fit in with the average.
it's a bit sad but this isn't untrue of many other places, for many other people.

if you've any suggestions for fixing anything though you know we're always open for suggestions, especially towards player outreach. it's, again, historically and frankly even current day probably the most garbage aspect of the staff team and the reason i haven't done anything about is i don't know how.
i am a software engineer in training, not a community lead, as much as i can try to help with the latter i'll always be lacking.

i'd, y'know, ask why no one ahelps or bothers informing the staff but i've already done that about two to three times and others have done it more.
no one answers.

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Papalus_Himself
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Re: [Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Papalus_Himself »

Oh, don't you worry your little head Kevin, I'm well aware I won't be accepted, I just want to see what various people want to say.

Sakuya
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Re: [Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Sakuya »

Having observed previous interactions and reactions within the community regarding the applicant, I'm not comfortable giving this application a vote of confidence at this time.

-1

Auraknight
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Re: [Lord_Papalus] Admin Application

Post by Auraknight »

I honestly didn't throw my 2 cents in here, because I thought that this was resolved already, in addition to you specifically saying that you where looking for Kevin's response.
As a person, and a player, I don't mind you. But I've, to some degree, gotten to know you and have interacted with you a fair bit. I do think you _could_ do good work as an admin, but I think the vision many have of you will lead to significant problems. I'm not entirely convinced you _want_ to be an admin here, but seeing as you're pushing for further messages after saying 'I'm well aware I won't be accepted', I feel like this is you attempting to push an issue again.

So, you know what? I've talked myself into it. You keep knocking on the devil's door, and one day he's going to answer.

+1

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