Combat Rework/Stamina Combat/Stamina General Feedback

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An actual constructive criticism

Post by Fractious »

Greetings everyone, this is an honest critic about the current combat rework that is live on the main server.
I'm making this constructive with the solo purpose of hoping to have my opinion heard, and improve the server in a direction that will please us all.

I'll split this critic in several parts for clarity, which are the following :
1. My general opinion on the rework and what it leaded to in general from my perspective.
2. What I enjoy about the rework overall
3. What I don't enjoy from the current version of the rework
4. My recap.

Have a nice read, and feel free to comment about it, both if you agree or not but please keep it civilized and don't go "REVERT STAMINA" mode etc.

1. My general opinion of the combat rework so far, and what it leaded to from my perspective :

I actually think the rework solved several issues with combat as a whole, such as dying from one taser bolt or slips being overpowered, which I think is really nice.
I do think that it's a very nice concept and quite unique on its own and is very promising. BUT, as everyone who talked to me about the rework, I do have several points that I dislike about it.
I think several players dislike some changes too, which is understandable but I think they should voice their opinion instead of just getting mad on the discord.
I also think that some points of the rework are more aimed for a role play server, rather than main itself.

But that's my general opinion as a whole.

2. What I enjoy from the combat rework

As mentioned earlier I really like how Bhijn nerfed slips, yet made them still viable, it makes zero sense that a spessman is unable to use his whole limbs after slipping on a slippy bar of soap.
They still make the user drop his item, and make him drop on the floor and he has to get up again, which is 10/10 in my opinion.
I also like how you can't just tase someone once and win the fight instantly, and how we can now crawl on the floor by using rest. I also like having to press the combat mode button when I am fighting.

3. What I don't enjoy from the current version of the rework

This is the touchy part, and I really want it be as constructive as I can, yet provide my points.

I think the rework has some changes that weren't really /made/ to be applied to the main server. The points I'm talking about are sprinting taking stamina, and swinging weapons taking stamina too.

I'll begin with sprinting stam loss.
I honestly find it quite frustrating at time to simply move around the station, especially as jobs that requires me to do so (Engineer to fix breaches or space walking, Security, medbay to save people around the station, miner)
I dislike how we're preventing the player base from moving too much, and having to take pauses every one minutes of sprinting since their stamina will be critically low.
Getting chased by security as antag can also be super annoying due to that, as you know if you don't turn the fight you will auto-lose due to slowly draining your stamina.
I think it's a good concept for a Roleplay server, but I don't think it is for a server focused on fun and action as its mostly only frustrating to deal with, for every parties.  

Secondly, stamina loss from hitting things.
This one is also really not fun to deal with at all, the only real pros I can see from it is immersion.
How many times have I, myself, or other people, from any jobs (Sec, antag, Mining) get annoyed by this.
Meta-wise, I think it simply makes melee combat extremely weaker compared to ranged, even more than before.
Why would one use melee combat when doing damage make you lose your most important stat, which is stamina? It completely reduces your movement speed, which makes you unable to escape sec if you attacked someone/something,
and makes your more at risk to get stam critted than before. Using melee combat already put you at risk of getting stunned super easily, or hit back, but you're also sacrificing your own stamina to attack, which is quite annoying.
I just think that it's not fun, kinda frustrating and leads to nothing but immersion, but yet again I think the main server should be focused on fun and action.

These are the only two points I have issues with the rework in all honesty. I asked several players opinion on the rework too, and these two points really are the only bad points we all came to.

4. My recap/tl;dr

The combat rework, even with all its backlashes actually did some pretty good changes to the meta of combat and balancing in its own. But I still think some features of it are bad for the fun and action of the main server.
Which are stamina loss on sprinting and stamina loss on hitting stuffs. I'd really like to see if we could maybe fix those two points, and I'm sure the combat rework will actually be fun to play with.

Thanks for taking your time to read my criticism, I sure hope my opinion will be heard and that we can all improve the server and make it more fun for everyone.
And please don't start a shitstorm in the comments.

Last edited by Fractious on Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fractious, Headmin
Just try your best, and worse case scenario you will fail and learn.

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RE: An actual constructive criticism

Post by nightspark43 »

It's been a while, but, isn't Melee Mining MORE viable now since, last I checked, getting a Crusher Detonation restores Stamina, or was that changed since I last played Main?

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RE: An actual constructive criticism

Post by UBFanDrake »

nightspark43 wrote: It's been a while, but, isn't Melee Mining MORE viable now since, last I checked, getting a Crusher Detonation restores Stamina, or was that changed since I last played Main?
Mining Crusher gets that benefit but it's the only melee weapon benefitting (even then stamina created the problem it had to fix anyway and when ya getting swarmed by Legion skulls it's hard to avoid not getting drained of stamina trying to cut your way to the legion itself.

(still annoying that the megafauna type Legion got a buff by being sped up but it was already of no value killing it before this just makes it even less worth it, why give it a buff if ya don't plan to make it worthwhile fighting it otherwise leave it as was is my opinion of that.)

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RE: An actual constructive criticism

Post by fattypenguin »

REVERT STA- I also think that the whole "lose stamina while bashing heads" break the spirit of the spess fight. Having to rely only on your guns to fight is quite boring since I always thought that melee combat was the best. Stamina also make the best traitor weapon, the gloves of the northstar, quite useless since you can't punch people without stamcriting yourself. The running part is also true since most of the jobs needs you to run around and it's a pain to always stop mid station to regain your stamina.

To be short: I agree with Fractious
If two wrongs don't make a right, try three.

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Re: An actual constructive criticism

Post by Orange Horn »

Only been playing since April, but I was wondering why on Citadel that I couldn't sprint very far. Mining is far more dangerous than I thought I'd I cannot run from the goliath! My computer seems to love to lag like a snail when a goliath is around, so dual wielding Kinetic Acceleraters and praying for a bit is my best bet? Because KA are slow to reload.

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Combat Rework/Stamina Combat/Stamina General Feedback

Post by kevinz000 »

Common sense, remain civil, discuss, post feedback, whatever.

Current plans, at least for me, is to have a sprinting buffer trialed, that regenerates separate of main stamina, so that sprinting is less punishing to do.

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Re: Combat Rework/Stamina Combat/Stamina General Feedback

Post by moltoretardo »

We need better melee fight too. Gun meta ain’t much fun

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Re: Combat Rework/Stamina Combat/Stamina General Feedback

Post by DiscordWizard »

I have to agree on the pros and cons presented. I honestly love how the stamina changed fixed the whole losing by a single move and then staying on the floor, unable to move and contemplating where you went wrong. Despite all the good things, I agree that losing stamina by sprinting and bashing things is really not that fun, specially in jobs with alot of sprinting and bashing to be done like mining even if you are presented with stuff like the crusher, and other more normal jobs since apparently it costs stamina to even weld off mushrooms from the floor.
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Re: Combat Rework/Stamina Combat/Stamina General Feedback

Post by »

One of the primary reasons i don't play RP often is stamina, I find the system very frustrating and annoying while in combat. There are many fights that could have been fun and interesting that are made simply boring because the other side has a gun.

The current variant of stamina highly favorites anyone with a ranged weapon over a melee weapon, which simply isn't fun. If you have a gun the process to attack someone is very simple, see then and shoot. While the process for someone with a melee weapon is, see them, run towards them and pray you are not shot, then click and hope you don't run out of stamina which will prevent you from swinging.

While I would ideally like to see the system entirely removed to atleast be playable for me the stamina requirement for melee attacks would have to be removed.

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Re: Combat Rework/Stamina Combat/Stamina General Feedback

Post by skasthi »

the main reason i don't play on main anymore is stamina, it just makes combat and in general doing anything a pita(pain in the ass). i don't think stamina is bad, but it's currently implemented badly. as it currently is, it's way too easy to lose stamina by just doing normal things, either by sprinting halfway across the station or getting in any melee combat(or pumping a shotgun six times and then collapsing of exhaustion), if sprinting was cut to a third of it's drain, and everything else(ignoring stamina draining security weapons) to 1/4 - 1/6th of it's current drain, it would be far more manageable.

i haven't been on main much since the rp server became populated because of the whole stamina issue(so i don't know if any of this is already in but i'm going to suggest it anyways), i wouldn't mind having the stamina pool regenerate slightly slower if the pool was "deeper" hell, you could make it based on wound levels and hunger so if your wounded or hungry, it wont regenerate quite as quickly as if you were unwounded/full(but not stuffed). you could also add stamina buffing/restoring traits/drugs/drinks (ie drink a glass of water to refresh your stamina, or take a whole bunch of meth and be like one of those wacky greased up meth heads from some famous YouTube videos getting dog-piled by ten cops and tazed dozens of times and still going at it).

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