Character Complaint - RP - Mayfox

[AvaricePleonexia]

It's not worth it, and it would be an actual waste of time: I've retracted the accusation, and Brock's player has already come forward to say he did it of his own initiative. Unless someone else wants to champion that particular cause, I think we can put it aside for now.

Reading over what he commented again, you're absolutely right. My eyes kind of glaze over when reading what Armyguy wrote, it's painful to decipher. Sorry.

[StellarWolf]

After some thought, and reading up on what Avarice has said...the one thing that sticks in my head which everyone literally has an issue ICly that I have vague understanding as to the reasoning: The french talk. Like with avarice, the french talking never really particularly bothered me, me mentioning that when the complaint was brought up was based solely on what I had witnessed throughout the entire time of being involved in a round with Akram. He says one french based word (I used french word loosely, cause folks just rage at his accent) and either general communication blows up in folks harassing similarly to when Ray used to show up on station, or...well, nothing. It depends on who is in the round really. A few select players just go ham upon seeing anything that is typed with the 'Akram' tag. Now, I don't personally care that he is pink or speaks french, isn't hurting my rounds when he is about. And tbh? He actually enhances it. Has initiated chats with two of my characters and vice versa and I frankly adore him. Now uh, the part that is really the big issue is what Avarice had quoted of mine, the ol belittling part. I've noticed that here and there, and it causes open wounds or just reopens scars of past drama to be let loose ICly. If he fixes that issue, he'd be golden.

[kevinz000]

I feel like you've failed to take the point of my message entirely, considering your response.
Gonna just reply to each point and then write an ending note.

About Kevinz's post, first sorry that it seemed like I ignored your but you closed your ticket the second you wrote me a message which signalled to me that you don't want a response.
Yeah you're right I didn't want a response in the ahelp as I had to go soonish just wanted to let you know it needed to be responded to.
There's a lot of effort in the post, yet it's left rather vague, going off on the nature of the server more than talking about Akram specifically.
I frankly don't care about the specific character you're playing rather than your actions as a player on the server, I'm talking about the nature of the server because I feel you're playing in a way that is ultimately detrimental to people's experience, something I'm very concerned with. While I am not a lead admin, development is only half of the equation. If you have problems with the playerbase, no amount of development is going to fix it, so if I see issues like this I'm absolutely going to be highly concerned on an OOC level rather than your specific character. I know the complaint is initially about your character, but I care more about what you are doing as a person on the server than what you're doing in terms of "IC character roleplay".
I can't comment much on that since I have no authority over it, but I will say the following: CitRP is as niche of a server as it gets, a niche game for a niche community with options for specific niche fetishism - by playing here you too consciously or less consciously agree that it's okay for people to leave because it's simply not their cup of tea.
The only time we're going to make people leave or when they should be forced to leave is if they can't even tolerate furries/ERP/species/etc EXISTING near them, if they can't tolerate interacting with our "unique species" (so the BURN THE FURRIES tier people), and when they can't act like they're on a HRP server. We're not going to uniquely protect specific character types if they're too negatively impactful. The majority of the people upset are NOT the common denominator of servers like Hippie that can't tolerate any amount of snowflakiness, and a lot of them are snowflakes themselves, just feel like pointing that out. They're tolerant enough.
Why is it then that I can't shake off a feeling that you're tossing a bone for the common denominator?
Because the common denominator here is the majority of the playerbase, if we're going to go there. I'm tossing a bone to them because the group I'm tossing a bone to is what the server consists of.
At a certain point, a person simply isn't in the target group for roleplay.
Your "roleplay" as Akram isn't any more target than any of the other stuff RP'd on server. Our limits on roleplay is when you're making others upset/uncomfortable (assuming they have reasonable cause to be). Our "target group for roleplay" includes ERP and such but we're not going to let people do hardcore public scenes continuously just because it's part of the target group of the server.
There aren't any definitions and I'm not looking to set one in stone, but I would say that if you simply have no ability to separate your feelings from your character's, if you can't enjoy anything but a happy ending, if you can't watch your character lose and still get a sense of fun from it - maybe then you just aren't cut out for it.
"You" as in everyone upset, or "You" as in me?
In the latter case: We've had ONE single interaction and you're wrong if you think I give enough shits about being called an adorable dear or whatever once to be here writing up paragraphs about why I think you should change.
In the former case: I am frankly not seeing how this pertains to the complaint, although I'll admit how I take this part of your post is "If I do something you don't like and you can't take it you should leave", which isn't the kind of thing I like to see from anyone, really. It's not about winning or losing at this point, and you're not nearly what the definition of the "target audiance" of this server is just from how far this complaint has gone and how you responded to people with issues with your behavior, and I'd respond to every single one of your conflicts with others but that'd probably be a bit peanuty and I don't want to write a 10 page essay over a video game because I'm lazy.
I'm not trying to say that those feelings are illegitimate, or that you should leave, more like that if you come to a hip hop concert as an enthusiast of classic please don't be mad if your complaints aren't taken seriously.
See above
This isn't a binary state either. Things aren't either lifeweb or /tg/, the server is very much allowed to have its own identity somewhere in the middle.
We do.
I'm merely trying to make the point that while you somewhat sound like you fear the server to become baystation, well, in that case, you should then also fear the server to become the opposite and monitor pushes for that side just as much.
I am, but I still fail to see how this has to do with how you specifically behave on the server. It's not asking to become the opposite to ask you to take a look at how you play and tone it down, even if I'm sure a lot of the others in the thread have been doing it in more hostile terms than my initial post.
Judging a character's worth on the server by the number of people that they make stay away is like judging a movie's quality based on the number of people that leave in the middle of the screening.
Yet you're not the only player here. There's times when, like I said, 'everyone else is wrong', but this ain't one of those times. One of the ways to resolve an issue that has two upset parties is see which party is more of the server, along with more in line with the goal/target audiance of the server. It's perfectly valid for me to talk about how the majority feels about you.
The much more important question I feel is whether the player is responsible and actively trying to ruin the experience for others.
I don't feel you believe you are maliciously ruining the experience for others, but by playing the character and refusing to compromise to others, you're kinda doing just that.
For a character that is set out to be a dick, this thread has a distinct lack of players that received aggressions from Akram without a catalyst. Instead what most people will experience is exactly what you have experienced, Kevinz - Akram approaches strangers with a weird, flamboyant, but inherently kind way, usually showering them with compliments. While some people take it as demeaning and feel treated like children, it doesn't change the fact that those are intrinsically good meaning words, meaning that the bitterness of the interpretation roots from the interpreter, not from Akram himself, luckily only the loud minority chooses to twist things that way. He doesn't threaten people, instead, he invites them to coffee. While Akram doesn't shy away from speaking out a very well placed, deep-cutting insult, telling me that I set out to play an annoying character feels like telling a person in a self-defence scenario that they set out to be violent.
He violated the NAP :ancap: No but your own argument can be used against you. You need to be able to compromise if it's obviously pissing people off. If I call someone something they don't like being called by and they repeatedly get upset about it I'm not going to continue calling them that just because it's what I usually call people as long as it's reasonable for me ot do so, just for an example.
I do not play Akram, or any of my characters with the intention of ruining people's fun. Please investigate in both directions instead of just against me. If you are going to tell me to fix things, which I'm more than willing to, realize that it's a shared effort.
IMO this shared effort has to begin with you.
I cannot build bridges into nowhere, both parties need to need to be willing to fix a grudge.
Yeah okay sometimes people refuse to build bridges but I believe people can change - With the catch that they need to change first. You can't blame people for not building bridges if you don't extend the support to do so. Change yourself, don't expect everyone to change for you.

With all that said: The tl;dr is I think the entire point of my post managed to fly by your head, so here: You need to change, not everyone else. You can't come in here and expect everyone to change to build bridges to you if you're not going to find a common ground. Expecting that will only result in trouble for all involved.
Also, for those who say this doesn't break a rule: In my eyes, it does. If it continues without things being fixed one way or another one side is going to get punished by rule 0 (Don't be a dick, see server caveats if you're one of those who are hard-line about only doing something if it breaks a verbatim rule so here you are.) or rule 1 (Do not grief, see the line about overbearing in character harrashment), as well as toeing the line repeatedly without actually breaking it.
So with me being exhausted and out of nicer words to explain this: You have a half-finished grave and a shovel. Everyone's telling you to stop digging.
Put the dirt back in and stop.

[RandomButt]

Just throwing my own stupid opinion out there. But everything I'm seeing being thrown around here is something I've personally seen coming from a lot of different players, do while it's questionable for a head of staff to do these things I don't necessarily see how it's an issue that needs to be talked about oocly. Icly sure go for it, but again I don't see how this is an ooc issue.

Feel free to tell me if there's something obvious I'm missing here.

[snow n' chrysanthemums]

Apologizes for errors, in a bit of a rush.

Part of the issue is that I feel we are forgetting that this is a game and not real life. I will again reiterate what I have said before on the complaint against me. You can always ignore RP outside the basic necessities with people you don't like in the manner they RP. That, and your character is NOT you.

Yes, the "Milk Fight" round was where Akram was with the QM for a brief stint I believe. May we also remember that the many of the people spamming the milk fight meme was part of the regulars on the server? Fruit from the poisonous tree. Akaram at fault for not resolving the situation does not absolve the crew members acting like three year old children.

Regarding Akram as a character, the issue is a two way street and not particularly an issue regarding Akram as a HOS but also the general crew attitude to things as well. As someone who has seen multiple "x because they did something I don't agree with from my viewpoint" from certain people on the server the issue lies in the fact that Security actions are taken out of proportion, leading from command to respond in the appropriate manner.

Key example: Tom Lytmon gets confronted as the only security while making an arrest by CMO, CMO locks and wields him in locker and justifies them as mentally insane and thus incompetent to work in security. HOS disagrees and overrules declares CMO cannot declare someone unfit. Crew threaten to mutiny and demand the warden be terminated whilst not knowing the situation. Protean breaks into security to spy on people . Security team arrests CMO and resisting medical, lynch mob forms and CD orders a code red to detain Bowchief (I think? Not too sure?) et al. for sedition. Everyone salts about shitcurity. Hey guess what? Warden gets choraled at the tram and people cheer (Hint: The group of people constantly saying security bad and fire someone lynch sec/command for something they did tend to be very specific, recurring people who usually are also equipped with a lack of understand of the nuance of the situation with only general details). There is a reason command staff make decisions like real life, they have better information than others and are more capable than the average person (well they aren't trained here but the point stands).

Is Akram an annoying charterer? Probably for most people, I don't see them generally when I play security because they aren't on so I won't comment on their ability leading security. My interactions with them otherwise tell me they are are somewhat lackluster as sec (crumpling paper = suspicious conduct? Really? I see people walk around in DEATHSQUAD gear and telescopic batons and get ignored by other HOS/Sec teams). I would like to mention although that technically corp regs are iron-clad, there is a bit of leeway as it wouldn't be interesting otherwise (for instance, my officer usually gives a warning to minor infractions before asking for a fine/brig time). Remember that Akram's arrogance is nothing compared to the HOP Malkin - who is in their records described as a narcissist and I have seen them give themselves all access lacking a CD - its not particularly bad and it is tolerable (Also the French is somewhat interesting, but I might just be a polygut try-hard), again, IC issue, IC resolution, file an IAA complaint/get the CD to railroad their ass.

The issue with security is that people jump to the wildest conclusions when the most minor things happen. I happened to post a officer char of mine near the stairs between hydro and the bar, and when Ray got his head bashed by Bowchief for stomping a crab on accident Bowchief tabled him. When the officer walks in the first thing I hear is along the lines of "fucking sec going to bash our head in now". Granted that is also partially the issue of a certain security officers pulling a Darwin award in intelligence by beating peoples heads in like an idiot or being extremely power hungry. Out of the Heads of Security I've played under, Akram is not the best but I can guarantee you there are much bigger fish to fry. Examples include that HOS and CD pushing for an obviously wrongful execution.

Vellen and Akram cannot be compared due to the issues at hand. Vellen blatantly disobeys orders resulting in extremely dangerous situations like building a fucking singularity and SM on surface side.So far I have yet to see Akarm deliberately cause a situation that endangers the entire station.
If Akram is still being passive aggressive after being told multiple times get an IAA and an admin to fire them for being an insufferable cunt and being detrimental to the station. Make it permanent if it continues. Like I said, solve icly. If Akram was a warden and being passive aggressive after the HOS asked to stop demote them and tell them to take a hike, or demote them and then charge them with failure to execute an order. If there is a HOS then IAA or the CD needs to step in. Make them paint the station pink or something instead of demoting them. Or do both. Prime example of retardation causing a PK would be Silloh Miller levels of idiocy.

Final note:
As someone who had bloody lynch mob out for them before I am hesitant to say that there needs to be more than warning without factual evidence like logs. If there's no superior above Akram at the time they act like this and/or if they continuously get demoted, then admins should get involved. If they wish to dig that grave and jump into it, let them.Considering Cit is a niche of a niche, we're going to have to tolerate people who we otherwise don't agree with. We aren't baystation and we're not going to complain if people are at varying levels of RP so long as it doesn't dramatically affect others.


The base illness is a disease of the body and not of the mind. Shitty players make security shitty and not the other-way around. Security is just most prominent in its ability to be a gigantic dick and get away with it resulting in salt. To remove weeds you have to clear the roots, not just the blades.

[InfinitelyThinRectanges]

Hi guys,

First of all, the myth of me searching explorers again and again. This one's a classic, it almost makes me feel like I'm back in school again - someone did something once and it becomes their identity. The truth is that it occurred exactly that one time and nowhere near as cartoon-villainy as InfinitelyThinRectangles' childish rant about Akram storming the hangar bay would want you to believe. Akram and two other officers went it and controlled the bags and pockets of all involved, no bolted doors, nobody was even forced to hand over the bag and did so themselves. Apart from that, I have received a bwoink after from Jade, who made it clear that while my interpretation of SoP is wrong, I am free to continue doing this as this is an IC issue. Regardless, I haven't police raided any hangars ever after. There are also some people that hold the belief that I ERPd the pathfinder right after - I can't help these simple minds. The pathfinder came into the office to apologize for Harold's actions and they exchanged a few words about the police raid.

I don't have the brain cells to place at risk in trying to decipher the wall of text you've dumped here but everything you've just said in this paragraph, especially the stuff in bold, is either an outright lie or hilariously oblivious/malicious, maybe both.

I'd just like to clarify that I happened to be observing at that particular moment and literally watched the entire thing. To start, the hangar doors were bolted, on your order, and whether or not you've chosen to remember that or accept your role in it doesn't matter a jot. You did it, I saw it, the staff saw it, everyone saw it. Stop trying to lie your way out of trouble, you're running through the steps of the narcissist's prayer here.

As for your line there about how "I've been told that I'm in the wrong but I'm free to keep doing it because you can't ban me for it", I do not have the emotional energy or vocabulary to articulate anything beyond this:

^ That attitude, right there, is why everybody hates you. If everything wrong with the way you act could be encapsulated in a single sentence, it'd be that one.

Thirdly, because I can't get into this too much until I get back to my place, calling people who have a disagreement with you "Simple minds" in the exact same smug, condescending, holier-than-thou manner that's making you all these enemies? Claiming that "I can understand that they don't have a clear picture of how ridiculous their claims are"? At the risk of crossing the line here what the hell is wrong with you, that's the exact behaviour that led to you getting hauled up here!?

Edited for typo fixes and the like and also to ask who the heck Vellen is. Have they done this kind of nonsense before, as a different character?

[raiq]

Hi guys,

First of all, the myth of me searching explorers again and again. This one's a classic, it almost makes me feel like I'm back in school again - someone did something once and it becomes their identity. The truth is that it occurred exactly that one time and nowhere near as cartoon-villainy as InfinitelyThinRectangles' childish rant about Akram storming the hangar bay would want you to believe. Akram and two other officers went it and controlled the bags and pockets of all involved, no bolted doors, nobody was even forced to hand over the bag and did so themselves. Apart from that, I have received a bwoink after from Jade, who made it clear that while my interpretation of SoP is wrong, I am free to continue doing this as this is an IC issue. Regardless, I haven't police raided any hangars ever after. There are also some people that hold the belief that I ERPd the pathfinder right after - I can't help these simple minds. The pathfinder came into the office to apologize for Harold's actions and they exchanged a few words about the police raid.

I don't have the brain cells to place at risk in trying to decipher the wall of text you've dumped here but everything you've just said in this paragraph, especially the stuff in bold, is either an outright lie or hilariously oblivious/malicious, maybe both.

I'd just like to clarify that I happened to be observing at that particular moment and literally watched the entire thing. To start, the hangar doors were bolted, on your order, and whether or not you've chosen to remember that or accept your role in it doesn't matter a jot. You did it, I saw it, the staff saw it, everyone saw it. Stop trying to lie your way out of trouble, you're running through the steps of the narcissist's prayer here.

As for your line there about how "I've been told that I'm in the wrong but I'm free to keep doing it because you can't ban me for it", I do not have the emotional energy or vocabulary to articulate anything beyond this:

^ That attitude, right there, is why everybody hates you. If everything wrong with the way you act could be encapsulated in a single sentence, it'd be that one.

Thirdly, because I can't get into this too much until I get back to my place, calling people who have a disagreement with you "Simple minds" in the exact same smug, condescending, holier-than-thou manner that's making you all these enemies? Claiming that "I can understand that they don't have a clear picture of how ridiculous their claims are"? At the risk of crossing the line here what the hell is wrong with you, that's the exact behaviour that led to you getting hauled up here!?

Edited for typo fixes and the like and also to ask who the heck Vellen is. Have they done this kind of nonsense before, as a different character?

Yes.
http://citadel-station.net/forum/viewto ... 93d0d23b43

[InfinitelyThinRectanges]

They even maintain the irritating accent, as well as everything else.

At the risk of being one to talk about IC accents I'm not even surprised, I'm just... No, I'm not disappointed either, that'd imply hoping for anything different. I think I'm just sad.

[HazelBailey]

Keep the discussion civil. This isn't the place to be throwing insults, it's for constructive criticism and bringing issues to admin attention.

[StellarWolf]

First of all, the myth of me searching explorers again and again. This one's a classic, it almost makes me feel like I'm back in school again - someone did something once and it becomes their identity. The truth is that it occurred exactly that one time and nowhere near as cartoon-villainy as InfinitelyThinRectangles' childish rant about Akram storming the hangar bay would want you to believe. Akram and two other officers went it and controlled the bags and pockets of all involved, no bolted doors, nobody was even forced to hand over the bag and did so themselves. Apart from that, I have received a bwoink after from Jade, who made it clear that while my interpretation of SoP is wrong, I am free to continue doing this as this is an IC issue. Regardless, I haven't police raided any hangars ever after. There are also some people that hold the belief that I ERPd the pathfinder right after - I can't help these simple minds. The pathfinder came into the office to apologize for Harold's actions and they exchanged a few words about the police raid.

So...why the lying? You were already talked about the constant searching of explorers when they came back, and wouldn't have been if it wasn't a continued issue. I counted multiple times on my different characters of you doing this, mayfox. That incident where I came in to talk to you about harold's incident as Regina was just one of the expedition searches. Now, I will say you didn't keep any contraband on you, but instead made us put it back on the shuttle. That's why I don't find this to be an issue as much as the passive aggressiveness.