Main - R3dtaile - Changing the roundtype because they didn't like extended

[Weblure]

As for Weblure. I don't think 'single-handedly ruin a round for majority of players is a fair way of putting it. I opted to do something different from the norm for /once/ . Sure, folks were welcome to not like it, and after the vote I did, I know how to better do something like this in the future, or at least how to keep it from devolving into as much chaos. And I give plenty of shits what folks think about what I do, that was the point of the vote. But when I'm accused falsely, like Burger initially did before rewording it appropriately, I tend to ignore things like that. He made the assumption that I was malicious, and I most certainly was /not/ being malicious.

I didn't see the original message, so I can't say anything about that. I don't believe you had malicious intent, and from what I've gathered, the extended round before that went to shit because of too many bored players, so I can see why you'd want to prevent another extended shift from happening. However, what you changed the round into was way over the top for something that the players couldn't have any say in. If you say you do care about what the players think and learned from what happened, then I personally have no reason not to believe you, as I haven't been here long enough to know how you typically behave as an admin.

[Trojan_Coyote]

I'm just gonna yeet this link in here that gives context on when forcing game modes is okay viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1115

See, this wouldn't have been as big of a deal if the round type was forced to secret. Then you'd just have a normal round where the majority of people could (most likely) still do whatever it is they were hoping to do without the entire station going to shit. Instead, what we got was force-antagging of every single person, creating an environment that encouraged the destruction of the station and random murder-boning, and made it pretty much impossible to roleplay or perform the job you've chosen.

People usually vote for extended for the following reasons: roleplaying, trying new things, or simply relaxing. When you force an environment where none of these things have a chance to happen, after the majority of players voted for extended... That's a problem.

If you read what was said by Leon, former host, you would see that it says as long as the vote hasn't finished we're allowed to force secret. Not just set the game mode. This complaint was over me forcing a game mode, but ultimately as log as the vote is stopped before finishing, admins have rule over what the round is like within reason.

[Burger]

Considering I was involved in the round I feel like I should toss in some words. I helped Chase along with setting objectives and pushing buttons. I recall that during the round on question, you ahelped "please just cryo me" (not exact wording, I think?). You had every opportunity to bail on a round you weren't having fun in. You weren't one of the traitors so you had no reason to stick around, you could have cryo'd on your own or just gone SSD, considering there would be no consequence. How you went through the round was up to you, whether you tried to fight back the traitors or just removed yourself fron the round.
On the point about making a vote, I personally don't believe an admin is obligated to reveal their plans for a bussed round. Like you said, the guideline says we *should* make a vote, but we are not foot-down forced to. Should being the key word, not "have to". Sure, votes are encouraged, but we don't need to if we don't want to.
No one forced you to participate or not in what you felt was a bad or unfun round.
Chase and I welcomed players to ahelp and let us know they didn't want to be a traitor or if they wanted to be removed, and we obliged to the best we could.
I don't think it's very fair to shoot up an admin complaint for one round you didn't like out of actual hundreds.

Hello. I did actually cryo. I ran to cryo as soon as I could but it was an annoying process because the entirety of the station was plasmaflooded, and a couple of antags were trying to kill me along the way. Please note that I'm not making a complaint because I had difficulty going to cryo but I'm making a complaint given their entire justification to changing the gamemode as well as their attitude towards criticism and a potential complaint itself. In OOC, after the round, they mocked the idea that someone would make a complaint about them, and when a complaint was made, they pinged me in discord about "Hey thanks for the complaint!"



People voted extended. An admin changes it to a murderbone gamemode because "I personally didn't like what happened to me in extended last round." and then goes "Haha I'm going to get a complaint over this!" and then goes "Haha thanks for the complaint!" when someone makes a complaint, then maybe something is wrong.

[Burger]

Just to clarify, I'm seeing a lot of some bad arguing here and misrepresentations as to why I'm making this complaint. I'm not making this complaint because I had a bad round, but I'm making a complaint because the actions done by Chase had poor process and poor intent.

I've only made one other complaint on here and that was about a bad adminbus too. It was marked as resolved as further discussion about what is acceptable for an admin to bus would occur at a later time and the person who did the bus agreed that what they did was a bad idea. I asked Chase twice that if it was voted extended twice, and they said yes to both which means they changed the vote after it was voted extended. They even said that they changed the gamemode because they didn't want extended because of last round so if those two threads that were linked earlier are used for precedent, Chase didn't really follow process.

Like I'm also starting to think that Chase isn't really taking this complaint seriously given this is the fourth joke they've made since then about this complaint. Like sure do it once or twice but if you're doing it four times then there is something wrong.



I'm not saying "no fun allowed" but... four times is just excessive and it starts to raise eyebrows.

[Izzy]

I've been meaning to post a resolution, but a lot has come up in the mean time, so I apologize for the delay. There's a lot to unpack here, and I'll sound like I'm repeating a lot of what's been said already, so I'll try and keep it short and list things off briefly. I've personally discussed the contents of this complaint with Redtail, and will have them confirm in their own post as we discussed a while back.

Admins having absolute control over the round types is something that we don't intend to change. Yes, we do factor in different votes when the intentions are pre-planned, but experimenting is encouraged to keep things fresh.
Just like how no-antag rounds can go wrong quickly, experimentation isn't expected to go perfectly every single time. The experimentation of trying to create a fun round went wrong and ended up the opposite. It's nothing we haven't seen before, and it's not something that is guaranteed not to happen in the future.
What is guaranteed though is the motivations behind it. I think that any accusations of this being intentionally malicious is extremely silly and an vast overreaction, if said accusations are true. Regardless of the round types or any events, our unanimous goal is clear, to try and create a fun gameplay experience. It's not always achieved, but it's always strived for. Going against the grain in adding antagonists to a round is one way of trying to create fun, and the reaction from players is absolutely being used to make decisions in the future, this case being no exception. It goes without saying.
On the topic of joking about official matters, recall that jokes about this complaint haven't been made by exclusively them... None the less, I've made sure to update some of our admins who are prone to making jokes about properly professionally conducting themselves. And I want to make sure that they can be proper role models in that sense for players in the future.

Hopefully that covers the topics at hand. I'll be closing this after Redtail's response to this post.

As a tiny p.s. I want to harshly say that I don't want there to be an illusion that voting extended entitles you to a round with no antagonists. There will always be game based forces to shape roleplay, some stronger than others. Admin events are still being honed to try and push in the right direction when they do push strongly.

[Redtail]

To put it simply, this complaint tackled the issue from the wrong area with false accusations. The assumption of my intent is incorrect. If the complaint focused mostly on the actual actions without trying to assume my intent, we’d have more to work off of. I’ll happily admit to mishandling the bus. Bussing events will come with growing pains, because of my lack of knowledge of what certain buttons do. Sure, “testing” in a live environment isn’t exactly fantastic. However, I learned a lot from that round and how to better do events in the future. There’s going to be growing pains, but there will /never/ be ill-intent in my actions. Compared to a majority of folks who play a lot, or are admins, they have played the game a lot longer than I have. I only have been around for not even a year yet. And the joking about the complaints I’ve received sure, not exactly appropriate so I don’t really have anything to defend that with. However, I’ve not been the only person to do so. Not to say inexperience is an excuse because it isn’t, but I at least better understand how to handle events like that in a better form to prevent it from devolving into an absolute shitshow like it more or less did. My heart was in the right place, but my hands were not expert enough to appropriately design something that’d be truly fun for everyone instead of merely a few.

[Burger]

Let me just put something into context for a moment.

About a week ago Izzy was considering giving me a discord ban for malicious behavior (malicious behavior was the words used, by the way) for the following actions:
- Making PRs that people didn't like, and not using discord before making them to gauge for feedback.
- Making a meme on reddit about citadel regarding the incident, ironically accusing citadel of being a terrorist organization.

To put it short, I was:
- Doing a bad job as a developer (according to Izzy).
- Making fun of an ongoing incident.

Izzy saw my behavior as malicious. I had to explain to them for about 3 hours that it wasn't the case and I don't even think they believed me still. However, they see Redtail and for some reason they chortle when I accuse them of being malicious.

I don't see the consistency in this ruling. Like if you compare this to Girdo's incident where they did a bad bus, your ruling was "We're going to make sure we don't have incidents like these in the future and have a roundtable discussion on what is appropriate to adminbus."

How was Redtail doing this bus for the reasons that they themselves mentioned (see: selfishness) and then them making fun of the resulting complaint, even as going so far to ping me on discord saying "oh hey another complaint to add to the collection"



How the fuck is this not malicious?

[DiscordWizard]

Honestly i see it as a bit too much that, when the players decided on extended, then without a vote everyone or atleast the majority of the crew was made a hijack traitor without much warning. Sure we are allowed to change the gamemode if we see it fit, but this seems excessive without a vote, that's my main issue.