[RP] JGlitch - Constant self antagging, low-rp, metabuddying

[Breogán]

Howdy, Anthony Mathews here.

Can't comment on much of the situation, only was a witness to the actions that happened in the last part of the text.
From my point of view, the overall RP that round with the power down was actually pretty low. The following is based solely on my memory of that round and can be slightly different from the reality.The bar was full with people, there was security and a bunch of randoms. The bartender was Huey. Akeb displayed pretty weird behavior, including stripping off completely naked, running around and screaming, smashing towel (that actually does hurt for some reason) at bartender and constantly speaking Diabolic language. When Anthony tried to intervene and protect Huey from being smashed with the towel with the good old disarm, Ronan Gallagner, someone who was completely not intervened in the matter, started pushing me in turn and blocking the way to two fighters, without saying a word. The fight lasted for a few minutes, involving the pushes and towel slaps. The situation heated up quickly, with my char becoming antagonistic to Akeb (note, not self-antagging, but in the way of disrespecting or feeling disgust towards someone). Then, the security arrived, with Ahz and some deer girl (din't remember her exact name, plays security a lot) to solve the matter. Even despite Ahz addressing to Akeb in Galactic Common, he continued to talk Diabolic (which, I believe, could not be understand by anyone but Huey). My character vocalized out aggression towards Akeb, and, as his char threw a lit cigarette at my char's face, Anthony rashed in to smash him a few times, now using crowbar (previous interactions with Akeb were disarm, and Anthony got hurt from several towel slaps). I hit him twice,chasing into the bathroom, where security gunned me down with suppression bullets. Deer girl proceeded to keep me down and in cuffs, while the last thing I saw after exiting crit state was Akeb in cuffs. He got up and wrote a /me emote involving him putting his hands up in cuffs, but at the same time bathroom door opened, and Ahz stormed in, clearly being in a fight with someone else (I heard shots and believed that it was Ronan). Ahz put a bullet into a standing cuffed person, and I can't judge her for that, since the cuffs were not so clearly visible (the back of the char faced the screen). By the time, I was dragged out of bathroom to medical, noticing a few spent buckshot slugs on the floor, got delivered to medical, proceeded through face reconstruction surgery and met with Ahz, who told me that my charge was battery and I served it in medical ward, while the charges of the two were assault and attempted murder. Being freed after the surgery, I followed onto the Tram, and saw both Akeb and Ronan being escorted to the tram, Ronan spilling out curses towards Ahz. They were dragged to the backside of the shuttle, and sealed off with security tape, but then the third person, them being Suleiman, escaped off the tram just the second before it could take off. Ahz rashed out of the tram to catch him, same as deer girl, who later was teleported back on shuttle with the help of shadekin. I assume that Ahz could use excessive force on a dangerous criminal in the confines of the station, where he could hide at any moment, but that's just my view on the subject.

http://prntscr.com/oohp25

As someone who happened to enter the bar, holding a head and throwing it over the counter like it was a pack of chips you do really put some efford on writting your message that you could have used to... I dont know, maybe roleplay a thing or two instead of just trying to keep disarming and going for Suleiman during the whole scene, and you get mad at me for trying to block your way? When you even went for him when he was clearly writting (I dont know if you have to be close to a character to see the bubble it appears when they are writting but where more than once time when Anthony tried to rush Suleiman while typping)

'Ronan Gallagner, someone who was completely not intervened in the matter, started pushing me in turn and blocking the way to two fighters, without saying a word.' If anyone ever happens to care at taking a look on the logs, because I've no screenshot of the fight itself, they could clearly see this whole part of your argument going straight to the pool to not coming back ever again. I was there since the very start of the fight and until the end, trust me on this because I said more than a word bud, not only telling you to cease but telling Suleiman as well to cut it. Again, I'm impressed you had the balls to dare and comment here after your poor show of roleplaying skills, instigating a fight.

PS: You could have left security handle the situation once Suleiman started chasing Huey with the towel, or even let them do it for themselves, but instead you decided to act like the White Armor Knight of the day, next time you wanna throw hands go to a LRP server.

[Snowfield]

I play Aster Aminizadeh (AKA "The Deer Girl") as a security main and was directly involved in many of these incidents.

The incidents have already been described above in detail, and JGlitch has for the most part acknowledged the facts in the events that happened, so I won't recap them. What's in dispute isn't really *what* happened (there are many logs and witnesses), but what it means for JGlitch and the rest of the playerbase. I don't presume to speak for the playerbase, so I will speak only for myself.

On one hand, Johnny's characters provide Aster with just the sorts of RP opportunities that she was intended for. They get into trouble, usually not very violently and usually in a pretty bumbling fashion. They're neither sociopathic nor psychopathic like some problem characters - that is to say they have genuine affect and underlying emotional vulnerabilities. They don't appear to be motivated mainly to cause pain to others (griefing). So at first, Aster tried to RP with Johnny Glitch to understand their motivations and to dissuade them from getting into more trouble.

But, on the other hand, I failed. I could not get Johnny Glitch to cease behavior that appeared to be calibrated to both draw the attention of Security while also frustrating them to the point where Sec officers either walked away from further RP or resorted to force. After several of these incidents, I'm starting to believe that JGlitch's behavior is meant to attract punishment to themselves, and in so doing draw the attention and sympathy of others to their being punished. Even Aster has started to question her whole diplomatic approach to Security in her frustration with characters who just don't know when to dial back the passive-aggression.

I'll step away from the trend of some of my fellow commenters to say that I don't want to see JGlitch removed from our community. Without formal Antags trying to sow genuine chaos, Security at least needs to have a few "usual suspects" minor troublemakers around the station to keep things interesting. And JGlitch really does want to RP, which we want on the RP server, right? But maybe in more moderation.

I read what JGlitch has posted and see his recognition of where he went too far and his contrition about It. I'd advocate for his agreeing to limit his characters' troublemaking behavior - like doing it just one shift per day, or not choosing to start things when Security is obviously dealing with another issue. I have to believe that we can come to an understanding somewhere between doing nothing and the nuclear option.

[bear]

I don't mean to be argumentatve, but I'd like to chime in with a few points:

First of all, why is Breogan, the person who is not only metabuddies with Glitch, but part of the actual problem, allowed to post not once, but twice, in defense of Glitch? This seems like a kind of rediculous conflict of interest, and while I don't exactly want to go 'hurp durp friend man bad', I really want to know if what they're saying is even being weighed in, because I don't think that it should be. Also, to quote from Breogan's previous post:

PS: You could have left security handle the situation once Suleiman started chasing Huey with the towel, or even let them do it for themselves, but instead you decided to act like the White Armor Knight of the day, next time you wanna throw hands go to a LRP server.

Interesting words coming from someone that literally admitted to standing in the way of Security for his character's SO, and for someone that's tried to fight Security a few times. If you think that behavior's bad and punishable, then you must surely also think that it'd be unfair to not push at you or JGlitch or the rest of the gang for doing a similar thing? Appropriately, for the fact you're going to scream and argue to the grave about it being IC'ly justified, this leads into my second and most important point, which is that there has been a lot of justification for what your guys' characters have been doing, which, even though they're bad excuses...isn't exactly relevant to a big point of contention.

I started off this post by saying that I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong with making slightly antagonistic characters, and I still firmly do stick to that. That's never been anyone's issue. The issue is that we're faced with JGlitch making antagonistic characters over and over again, regardless of reason, with 300 excuses for each individual action, but no greater justification within the greater cohesion of a character. The fact of the matter is that, at this point, the IC excuses hardly matter, since past the third self-antag you make in a week, they just start seeming like paper-thin excuses for this weird self-antagging victim-complex. The revolving door spins, out pops another character who's going to do shitty things and disrupt people's roleplay and make Security people just want to not play. People have gotten banned for less. The last person that got banned, Vellen, got banned for less.

This leads into a point from my first post, as well- these responses really do just seem like more IC excuses to justify Glitch's OOC behavior/grudges, and I really hope nobody's actually falling for this gaslighting bullshit. At the start of this, I was sort of sympathetic, but it's really clear that both JGlitch and everyone the complaint is leveled towards think that they've done absolutely nothing wrong, and that 'surely, everyone else must be the problem!!' when everyone crawls out of the woodwork for this.

[JGlitch404]

First of all, why is Breogan, the person who is not only metabuddies with Glitch, but part of the actual problem, allowed to post not once, but twice, in defense of Glitch?

I dont know, and why are you allowed to post not once but twice against my case when you have done bad things, too? As far as I know I never ever harmed anyone, unlike your character, that stomped Yueng onto the ground repeatly in front of security, granted, he tried to break into medbay, but he was already getting arrested by security. My point isnt that you shouldnt had done that, I do not care, it's IC, it's fine, tho you got off easy because Kaz is your friend, my point is that you've done similar stuff like him. ( https://imgur.com/waCNabG )
His characters were mentioned, he was involved in the situation and thus he's more than justified to post here, he's even critiquized me about my tendency on taking things LOOCly or ranting about it on Discord and all of his points seem fair, to be honest.

There's no metabuddying here, people, there's just two friends making characters trying to bring something interesting to the table, sometimes our characters are not friends, but enemies, Keekenox is a testimony of that, and even told us that what we were doing at that moment was cool (even if it ended in an accidental breach wich got the three of us killed).
I also invite all of the admins to review logs to try to see if we were metacomming or not, everything that our characters do or know, it's because they got the information ICly or have seen it with their own eyes.

Again, I am going to recognize what I've done wrong, just as a recap, and the things that will change from now on.
No more Discord/LOOC banter, I can control myself, I'm better than that, (tho, again, at least I dont throw insults or go full on toxic).
Any illegal gimmicks should be few and far between, play more normal, calm characters, like Jason or Pedro or even Glitch (Yes, as you can notice by the timeframe from Kazkin's posts, the only instance where my character has been problematic was the first round he is reporting, wich was somewhat a month ago). Glitch has been behaving as of late, and people can testify about that, he's become more chill and friendly.

While I previously stated that this topic was unnecessary, it served his purpose (even if it would've done the same thing by just, you know, TALKING with me), I reflected about the points that has been made here and I'm ready to improve even further, as I've been doing.

Old habits die hard, and I have a couple of personal problems that make it just a little bit harder on me, but I'll keep trying and do my best, so please let me do so... And that doesnt only go for admins, but for players as well, because it doesnt matter if I dont get banned, if players dont give me the chance to interact with them, be part of the group, make friends with their characters instead of being rebuffed and despised, this topic trully will not have accomplished anything... I would be very, very thankful if that changed, to be honest.

EDIT:

This leads into a point from my first post, as well- these responses really do just seem like more IC excuses to justify Glitch's OOC behavior/grudges, and I really hope nobody's actually falling for this gaslighting bullshit. At the start of this, I was sort of sympathetic, but it's really clear that both JGlitch and everyone the complaint is leveled towards think that they've done absolutely nothing wrong, and that 'surely, everyone else must be the problem!!' when everyone crawls out of the woodwork for this.

I never said that, I fully aknoweldged that I need to change a couple of things and I promise to do so, Snowfield got it, maybe you misread my previous posts, please, this is a touchy subject, be 100% sure of what you're saying is right. Because I did admit that I've done a couple of things and I should change the way I do them or never do them at all.

[Kazkin]

I'm sorry in advance if I go all over the place with this post, I'm pretty tired and this caught me by surprise, as I didnt get any complains from admins in any of the rounds I played.

This is the only one I want to quote because it is an outright lie. I not only told JGlitch 10 hours in advance before this thread was posted but I told several other people on discord I was making this complaint. He knew about it well in advance and I even sent him the link once it was posted. I can provide screenshots but as most of this was public discord posting you can just take my word for it or check my posts if you doubt my words.

_____________________________________________________________

I'm not buying it.

I'm not buying any of it.

This is believable and trust worthy as a Russian man offering me ten grand to answer an email from his Nigerian prince friend for a bank called ScamCo.

JGlitch has a pattern of behavior that can be easily proven by looking at his post and has been not only alluded to by him but outright stated by other people in this thread. The formula goes as such: He self antags -> he gets slapped by security -> looc salt -> then discord damage control. Every time someone calls him on his low-rp or self antagging he does the same two things every time. He either apologizes and grovels or he plays the victim and makes every else out to be the problem instead of questioning his own actions. Everything he is saying right now I don't believe, because I've warned him 3 times and every single time he has given me the same set of words.

"I'm sorry, I regret my actions, I'll improve, I swear this was the last time."

Yet it isn't ever the last time, is it? You'll notice nobody is defending JGlitch besides the player who admitted out right he was his meta friend helping him with this self antagging. One who tried to kill a security officer to stop an arrest he wasn't even involved in that he no-rp wordlessly jumped into. I don't think for a moment any of his words are genuine, I think he is just saying what he thinks admins want to hear to avoid getting in trouble. But let's focus on something more than him as a person for a moment and let me draw attention to something I find interesting.

In the last post above by JGlitch he makes a point to imply that I let Sidera off on a crime because they are my friend. That's not only laughable but provably false. In the specific situation where Sid assaulted his character Yueng I saw it all happen. Did Sid's crime get ignored? Did I gloss over their crime and pretend it didn't happen? Did I at any point say "Good job Sid." No, of course not, in the screenshot outright I told Sid her actions were smooth brained despite her stopping a fleeing criminal. I then offered JGlitch the chance to drop 10 minutes off his charge if he didn't press a 4 minute charge/400 thaler fine on Sid. Think about this for a moment, he got offered the removal of a tier 2 crime if he didn't make me fine Sid with a tier 1 crime. I gave him a literally get out of jail free card and he chose not to take it. Additionally, to note something that his meta buddy stated when they interfered with his recapturing during transfer, he rolled down his jumper himself to be shirtless and I outright stated I gave him cuffs because I thought he'd run and didn't trust him. Given that is exactly what happened my suspicion was valid.

Now let's refocus on another set of players, Anthony and Ghet, two known trouble makers. These two are mild self antags and you know what? I like them. I like them because they are reasonable. I like them because they know when to cut the shit. I like them because they comply with security and don't play the victim. When I arrested Anthony he complied, I took his cuffs off and he didn't run and he was more than willing to pay the fine before I did the math and realized his minor assault charge's brig time passed while he was arrested and in medical. Anthony and Ghet, for all their faults, do not show up each shift to a set of collective security groans because they don't always cause serious problems and when they do they can be reasonable and handled. I'm not against self antagging when done right, I've even discussed running player run events that were more or less self antagging to bring some enjoyment to security and the player base to keep up our player count up and let people have fun.

You are not fun, JGlitch, you are the opposite. You make the rounds actively worse and you've been warned in an admin capacity according to Kev. You've been warned by me three times, you've been warned by Avarice at least once to my knowledge. I've given you every chance to shape up and even as you poked and prodded and did everything you could to cause drama I still showed you leniency despite knowing it isn't going to help, in fact, being nice has been detrimental because as Snowfield said you take advantage of it and walk all over us if we give you any ground.

[bear]

I dont know, and why are you allowed to post not once but twice against my case when you have done bad things, too? As far as I know I never ever harmed anyone, unlike your character, that stomped Yueng onto the ground repeatly in front of security, granted, he tried to break into medbay, but he was already getting arrested by security.

This is exactly the type of gaslighting stuff I'm talking about. Not only did I acknowledge the fact that my character is a jerk, I also added I don't think you should be punished specifically for that. I have been punished/bwoinked for what Sidera's done. You're not some special victim, stop acting like it. And as for being 'already arrested', let's check the attached logs in the original post. You, clearly, were not arrested, and were attempting to run away. You very much cut that part out, by the way. Why are you doctoring your evidence so carefully?

tho you got off easy because Kaz is your friend, my point is that you've done similar stuff like him.

I actually haven't talked to Kaz ooc'ly in DM's since the day before this complaint was posted, specifically regarding this complaint. More lying and gaslighting, ok. What a paragon. This is literally the cycle Kaz just called out in his above post. You flare up angrily and then try to damage control or deflect the blame onto other people for the problems you yourself have just made.

There's no metabuddying here, people, there's just two friends making characters trying to bring something interesting to the table

He says, after his metabuddy has admitted to being a metabuddy and metabuddy behavior.

EDIT:

I'm sorry in advance if I go all over the place with this post, I'm pretty tired and this caught me by surprise, as I didnt get any complains from admins in any of the rounds I played.

This is directly after Kevinz talks about how admins warned they wouldn't tolerate this behavior from you more than twice a week earlier in the thread. Why are you lying and gaslighting so much?

[Kazkin]

Evidence of JGlitch resisting cuffs and Sid jumping in. To note, his character Yeung ran from security and hid in a locker, which is where we found him. Sid, Atticus, and Aster can back up this claim if needed. He was also wearing a mask originally.

The first time I ever messaged Sid aka Bear in discord and spoken to them ooc was 8/4/19 at 11:58 AM.

[Doopytoots]

Huey Bennett's player here, feel I needed to add a bit just to help and that I agree with what was stated by Jglitch related to any context related to Huey in that it was merely playfulness that got out of hand, even with his characters never felt like they were throwaways of any kind such as his one character Jason Toussaint which while slightly intense at times I've felt has been very well RP'd as well as his more aggressive characters with a sense of development, build up and acting out in retaliation. mistakes were clearly made but admittedly Huey didn't help when it came to Suleiman as Jglitch said I feel it wouldn't have gotten that out of hand hadn't certain folks not jumped in and aggravated the scene further since sec was already there taking care of the issue.

[JGlitch404]

I was tempted to add this to another edit on my previous reply, but I think it's so important I'll do it here:

People have gotten banned for less. The last person that got banned, Vellen, got banned for less.

Okay, let's take a look of why they got banned:

They joined a very important and touchy job that either OOCly didnt have any idea how to play, or intentionally played badly as a gimmick, or intentionally sabotaged the engine.
They blew up atmos because of that.
Assaulted someone, hitting them enough times and with enough force to cause brain damage with very poor escalation and reasons.
If my memory isnt failing me, they were EXTREMELY rude and toxic with everyone or almost everyone they interacted with, having an exaggerated homophobic attitude.

How is all of that even close to what I've done? You can find the source of all of my claims here: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2830 And the topic is called Another complain about Vellen, I've only citated the complains from the most recent post, there's TWO more posts complaining about Vellen for more than one reason EACH. I also do not see any post from Mayfox trying to defend themselves or try to make any improvement.
I'll post them here as a sidenote: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2554&start=60 viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2245

[Kazkin]

This isn't about Vellen, the point was people have gotten the boot for less and yet here you are.

This is about you.