[MAIN] Klara Ellstrom - Murderboning with Femur Breaker for laughs.

[Owai]

BYOND Name of complaint against: Unknown, Character name is Klara Ellstrom

Your BYOND name: WFTWP - Owai-Seek

Date of issue and round ID: 8/6/19 18542

Reason for complaint: Murderboning with Femur Breaker with no regard for other players.

(Note, Klara was an changeling/antag, but I'll get to that.)

5 minutes into the round I see a Femur Breaker in front of the bridge, this thing already grosses me out so I avoid it. I see Klara there, and an SSD person sitting nearby. I walk south down the hall towards, see someone I want to talk to, and see the screaming in chat from there. I run up, see she's strapped someone in and turned it on, so I immediately start to attack them. I knock them down, but they get weapons and I'm out of stamina (I assume just adrenaled all their shit back or something, I don't know antags well.) I'm strapped in, and they use the femur breaker on me for a solid 5 minutes while I have to listen to the scream the entire time, they kill three people in an incredibly short span of time, with the femur breaker, and the only security officer (Chayse) can't get us out of the machine. I ahelp the issue and its immediately shot down because she's an antag and its considered an IC issue.

I understand antags are allowed to murderbone, but this is a literal fucking torture device. People are allowed to opt out of listening to vore (or are supposed to be able to anyway), but I wasn't allowed to opt-out of literal torture. We had absolutely nothing to do with her objectives, the SSD had nothing to do with her objectives, and it ruined at least two peoples rounds because we quit out of pure disgust and frustration.

I posted about how pissed off I was on the discord and people shit on me because "The guillotine is the same thing" and "People can do the same thing with a meat spike", but I had no way to get out of the device once the animation started, I was strapped into it (it has an immediate buckle), and had my limb forcibly crippled, was put into crit, and was forced to listen to an agonizing scream over and over again. They then proceeded to do the same to two other people, one of whom I know quit the round as well because they were pissed off with the situation. This may just sound like salt, but I've been here for around two months and nothing has made me as solidly pissed off as this.

I don't know how the guillotine works, but I know with the meat spike, you need to have someone in an aggressive grab, and it takes time to force them on. The Femur breaker has an immediate buckle, I was only able to unbuckle once, and then I couldn't resist or get out of it again.

[raiq]

Absolutely agree.

Femur breaker is only going to be abused for the above, and considering it doesn't kill you and just torture you over and over. However, seeing that they were a changeling kinda offsets it, as antags can get away with pretty much everything, but there is meat to the complaint in regards to the torture aspect.

To my own two cents about the latter complaint though, Klara is one of the people whom I consider to play this game only to roll antag, or valid hunt. Countless times I've seen them powergame nonsense like the cake hat to murder/chase down antagonists, and they constantly go out of their way to be a pain in the ass when they didn't roll antagonist and it's a green shift, by attacking/killing Marie Allerton and other friends of theirs to keep security clogged up with their nonsense. Dealing with them as a security member is an absolute pain in the ass, because they do NOT stop. I really wish they chilled out sometimes.

[obscolene]

Good evening.
All of the other changelings were cremated, I literally could not greentext. Every time I saw my target, Marcus Zeldrich, I would attempt to kill him.
As for the femur breaker, I built one in front of bridge because it was the first time I had rolled antag since it has been in the game. I wanted to test it out, so whenever someone would walk by I would strap them in. 90% of the time, they would just unbuckle themselves and run away. When I did get someone in it and manage to activate it, they would then either leave afterwards, or just sit there. A security officer walked up and stared at me while I was femur breaking someone, so I stared at them and kept doing it. It was juxtapose to see the only member of security stand there idly watching someone break someone's legs. For the record, my intent was not to kill people. My intention was to break their leg(s). I did not stop anyone from taking people to medbay, nor did I stop anyone from being healed afterwards. Part of the reason I did it above bridge, instead of, say, in a greasy maintenance tunnel where nobody walks by. I did not want people to die nor stay dead, just have their legs broken, do funny scream, and then get dragged off to medbay.
Furthermore, when you started attacking me, I did not attack back. I kept attempting to run away, but you did not stop getting max RNG rolls on your punches, which kept draining my stamina. You kept punching me while I was drained completely of stamina, all the way to the arrivals hallway. I took out a welder, and started beating on you in hopes that you would retreat. You did not, so I brought you to the femur breaker. I activated it and your ERP buddy, Mika Dashi, attempted to attack me as well. I waited for her to just unbuckle you and drag you off to medbay, instead of trying to kill a changeling in the halls while unarmed. But she did not, so she got the femur breaker as well. Both of you were then dragged off to medbay by whoever. I did not, as you say, 'Stand there and repeatedly use it for a solid 5 minutes straight.' That is just an outright false statement. Anyhow, I was chased around by security for a while. I decided to have some fun with it, and strafe around the structure while dodging taser bolts. Some other people who got put into the femur breaker include the janitor, who kept beating me with a toolbox in the halls whenever he saw me. The Research Director, who tased and killed me.
Overall, it was a pretty fun round. The femur breaker is not meant to be a 'torture RP fetish non-con device.' It is just a worse guillotine that disables your leg instead of instantly decapitating you. The femur breaker, the guillotine, sleepers, etc. all have the same premise. You have to be adjacent to both the structure, as well as the person you are putting in it. All 3, namely sleepers, put you in instantly -- and the same goes for the other way around. Unless you are literally stamcritted and cannot move, you can instantly get out of all 3 of these machines with no trouble at all.
I hope this clears some things up, or any questions you might have had about the new game mechanic. Have a good rest of your day.

[Owai]

I died at the 9 minute mark of the round, it was an assumed green and I had no idea changelings or any other antagonists were on board. I had assumed you were being a shitter by harming an SSD with the femur breaker just for kicks. You killed 3 people (4, counting the SSD) with the femur breaker not even 15-20m into the round. I was in hard crit as soon as I was hit the first time by it, but I could still hear the sound effect of either myself, or all of your other victims, being mutilated by it. My intention was to beat your ass for hurting an SSD crew member and drag you to security for assault, but you kept getting up. It took an additional 20 minutes for cloning to even start because medical was understaffed with a new player, and three people were taken out of the round for absolutely no other reason than you wanting to "test" out a torture device.

Calling them my "ERP Buddy" adds absolutely nothing to the conversation, both of us heard the scream from down the hallway, and we both saw you using the machine on the person. My friend had no idea they were SSD, they just saw them strapped into a femur breaker.

You might have had more luck getting other changelings if you hadn't outed yourself as a threat less than 10 minutes in. This entire ordeal was shitty for everyone involved but you.

I was in stam crit when you used it on me, I have no idea about the other two, but my "ERP Buddy" wasn't able to get out, and I have no idea what the janitors deal was, other than I possibly managed to yell for help once before I got put into hard crit, and they responded to it because I was there, near you in front of the bridge, bleeding out.

At best this thing shouldn't be craftable, at all, and you shouldnt be murderboning random SSD's to "test" new mechanics that cause harm, even if you're an antag. I was extremely unsettled by this entire interaction and my entire round ruined because it was a false green and you wanted to have a giggle at breaking an SSD's leg.

[Nethaufer]

The only issue that really stands out to me is someone fucking with an SSD. People who are SSD are not to be messed around with except in fringe antag related situations. The rest of the issue I haven't formed enough of an opinion on due to being at work and I may or may not respond further.

[obscolene]

For the record, I was not aware the person was braindead until someone pointed it out to me. For example: I will often times, as a blood cultist, run up and stun + cuff someone I see standing in an isolated area, drag them off to a conversion rune -- and not realize until they just stand there idle and I examine them, that they are braindead.

[Burger]

The only issue that really stands out to me is someone fucking with an SSD. People who are SSD are not to be messed around with except in fringe antag related situations. The rest of the issue I haven't formed enough of an opinion on due to being at work and I may or may not respond further.

Honestly I think this shouldn't be the only thing that stands out. There is one thing that most people aren't paying attention to: Klara Ellstrom was the one who made the PR in question. On any other coderbase if you make a feature, and then abuse it as soon as it was merged, you'd probably no longer have PR privileges.

Klara has a tendency to harass and belittle everyone. Ask anyone who has had an encounter with them and they'll tell you that they usually behave like this. She loves making people feel uncomfortable and she absolutely succeeds at this. No one should be surprised when they're weirded out that someone who acts like this codes in an actually unbalanced torture device and uses it for no good reason, other than "i'm a ling i can murderbone."

[obscolene]

There is one thing that most people aren't paying attention to: Klara Ellstrom was the one who made the PR in question.

It's a new feature, just added to the game. Dozens of other people have used it. I am not exempt from being able to use a new feature just because I am the one who coded it.

On any other coderbase if you make a feature, and then abuse it as soon as it was merged, you'd probably no longer have PR privileges.

There was no abuse of the mechanic. It's intended to break femurs, and that is what I used it for. There was no bug exploiting.

Klara has a tendency to harass and belittle everyone. Ask anyone who has had an encounter with them and they'll tell you that they usually behave like this. She loves making people feel uncomfortable and she absolutely succeeds at this.

This is just a disingenuous attack of character that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Dismissing a leg-breaking device as 'fetish content' does not mean the person who made it holds the same mindset, Goofball.

[Burger]

There is one thing that most people aren't paying attention to: Klara Ellstrom was the one who made the PR in question.

It's a new feature, just added to the game. Dozens of other people have used it. I am not exempt from being able to use a new feature just because I am the one who coded it.

On any other coderbase if you make a feature, and then abuse it as soon as it was merged, you'd probably no longer have PR privileges.

There was no abuse of the mechanic. It's intended to break femurs, and that is what I used it for. There was no bug exploiting.

Klara has a tendency to harass and belittle everyone. Ask anyone who has had an encounter with them and they'll tell you that they usually behave like this. She loves making people feel uncomfortable and she absolutely succeeds at this.

This is just a disingenuous attack of character that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Dismissing a leg-breaking device as 'fetish content' does not mean the person who made it holds the same mindset, Goofball.

The "Fetish Content" post on discord was a joke, and I then further elaborated and suspected that it was probably going to be abused by people and that I was worried that it was going to be abused by creeps. Turns out I was partially right, with several people abusing it regardless of their antag status. You didn't pay attention to this because you were to busy shitposting and calling me a retard, so I assumed that the joke was well received since that is usually your reaction to things that you think were jokes. Seems like I was wrong.

But now that I think on more and more about this entire PR's situation and your general behavior to everyone else makes "fetish content" a valid theory. Note that I'm not saying fact, but theory. It is very likely that you didn't make this because you get off to making people miserable but it sure seems like this given your reaction to people not liking the PR and your attitude towards everyone else. Nearly absolutely everything you have said to other players is rude as hell. Nearly absolutely everything you have done to other players is rude as hell. You're on a furry ERP server and your entire personality IC and OOC is making people uncomfortable as fuck or being a straight up asshole and disguising it as just shitposting whenever people ask you "Hey, why are you being so rude?"

I'm not saying you're not allowed to use features you made but honestly it feels like you used the feature super inappropriately when you used it. That was my point. When you implement something super overpowered to the point where there are 4 seperate PRs nerfing or removing it, and then use it when you have a chance doesn't make anything look good.

I'm not attacking your character. I'm not insulting you. I'm not trying to provoke you. I'm just saying that right now, given everything that has occured during that round, your response to Owai's criticism, and your response to other people's criticism, I don't think you care about the feelings of other players, but I'm going off topic. My initial post was the fact that you made this PR in the first place and don't really show any remorse for how anything went down, regardless if you're "guilty" according to the rules.

[MrJWhit]

I should just mention what I saw:
I saw a ling create a torture device in public, where everyone can see it, of which the torture device is loud by design.
Then they strap someone in, and activate it. Some people gather as a result of the screaming.
There are around five people or so who are just sort of gawking, including a sec officer just sorta... watching as people got grabbed randomly and had their leg broken.
Any one of them could have stepped in, past hitting Klara a single time, nobody stopped them.
Nobody tried to break the machine. Nobody hit them with any sort of dangerous weapon. Nobody called for help in any meaningful way that I could see. All that anyone did was drag away bodies that were in crit.
This was when the ticket came in, that Klara was attacking people.

At this point, it's just a ling attacking people slowely, and nobody stopping them. So I labeled it as an IC issue, because it is by the server rules. It's an antag going slightly murderbone-y, which, according to the rules, as long as it's not constant, then it's ok.

There was a significant bystander effect that was going on, and nobody else showed up, or tried to help out. It's not validhunting if someone is literally hurting people in front of you, with an object they made, also in front of you.