Main/Derkuleen/Ignored a glitch that nearly forced me out of the round completely

[ForrestWick]

BYOND Name of complaint against: Derkuleen

Your BYOND name: ForrestWick

Date of issue and round ID: 8/19/2019 18742

Reason for complaint: As a shaft miner, I found Pride's Mirror and used it knowing full well I would be transported to space. I do it usually when I find the mirror, big deal. This time I got thrown inside of a wall in the paper ship, which is completely unbreakable without admin intervention. And when I say inside the wall, I mean two tiles in, meaning I couldn't simply walk out. After attempting to break the wall and fulton myself, I ahelped asking for some assistance. Dekuleen responded to the ahelp and refused to help me out saying I knew the risks when using Pride, making sarcastic remarks such as "Something to be said about Pride there." and giving me very poor reasoning to not help me at all. I spoke with other people about it and found out that getting put into a wall like that is apparently not supposed to happen, much less an unbreakable wall. If it was metal, then it would've been whatever. This was paper ship wall, though, so I couldn't just plasma cutter it.

Derk went back and forth about it for over 20 minutes, delaying me from doing anything completely and then said he would have to punish me if I were to be given a way out. He then proceeded to say he was going to find another way to put me in the round and figure out how to balance it, essentially saying he was going to force me into another role and potentially another character without even asking if I wanted that. With all I know now, I feel Derk wasn't even properly looking into the situation and was doing something completely out of line given the round was extended.

[Fractious]

Hi Forrest,

I'm trying to understand what exactly happened... but I'm not certain I 100% get it or maybe I'm lacking full context. Have you simply used the pride mirror and Derkuleen teleported you into these walls, preventing you from playing the game, for no reasons? Or did you actually do something to put yourself in this situation?

It feels like I'm missing a part of the of the puzzle, and I'd like to hear Derk's side of the story.

Godspeed,

EDIT : After discussing in #staff-forum, I was informed that Forrest was teleported into the wall due to the ruin randomly teleporting people in space, and due to RNG he ended up here. Honestly, that wasn't a glitch/bug, but more like a bad luck from your part. They indeed could've helped you, but weren't forced to. At this point it was at their discretion to give you a way out or not. I'm afraid this was all fair and game.

[derkuleen]

Hi Forrest,

I'm trying to understand what exactly happened... but I'm not certain I 100% get it or maybe I'm lacking full context. Have you simply used the pride mirror and Derkuleen teleported you into these walls, preventing you from playing the game, for no reasons? Or did you actually do something to put yourself in this situation?

It feels like I'm missing a part of the of the puzzle, and I'd like to hear Derk's side of the story.

Godspeed,

He used prides mirror then got stuck in the wall, there at the ruin, after it teleported him since he chose to become a vampire. He then complained that he was stuck because he didnt take any precautions before activating prides ruin. I wasnt in any haste to bail him out. I eventually walled off the path to the boss of the ruin and made a door for him to get out through the path that normally would have let him in.

[RogueSteampunker]

Alright, after a fair deal of conversation among admins and the like, I'm gonna have to side with Forrest in this regard. As far as it stands, the fact that you can teleport into unbreakable walls and not be guaranteed an empty tile has been noted as a coding oversight, and is honestly rather unfair to suddenly write it off as a player problem when their only means of getting out was just killing themselves, with no potential counterplay, especially since as noted here-

"he chose to become a vampire. He then complained that he was stuck because he didn't take any precautions before activating prides ruin."

There aren't any precautions you can take outside of taking bluespace crystals with you, and if it's to the point you need to prepare for what's effectively a bug, that doesn't sound like an ic situation to me. It sounds like refusing to simply teleport a person outside of the ruin for any reason beside paranoia or the like.

And by "made a door for him to get out through the path that normally would have let him." do you mean making him run the entire gauntlet backward? Why is teleporting someone who got glitched into the wall not okay, but forcing them to run through the entirety of the paper ruin suddenly when it's okay?

[derkuleen]

Alright, after a fair deal of conversation among admins and the like, I'm gonna have to side with Forrest in this regard. As far as it stands, the fact that you can teleport into unbreakable walls and not be guaranteed an empty tile has been noted as a coding oversight, and is honestly rather unfair to suddenly write it off as a player problem when their only means of getting out was just killing themselves, with no potential counterplay, especially since as noted here-

"he chose to become a vampire. He then complained that he was stuck because he didn't take any precautions before activating prides ruin."

There aren't any precautions you can take outside of taking bluespace crystals with you, and if it's to the point you need to prepare for what's effectively a bug, that doesn't sound like an ic situation to me. It sounds like refusing to simply teleport a person outside of the ruin for any reason beside paranoia or the like.

And by "made a door for him to get out through the path that normally would have let him." do you mean making him run the entire gauntlet backward? Why is teleporting someone who got glitched into the wall not okay, but forcing them to run through the entirety of the paper ruin suddenly when it's okay?

You can also use jaunters or hand teles. Making him run the gauntlet served to present a challenge instead of free escape as PRIDES MIRROR is intended to have but falls spectacularly short of. Miners have an insane amount of tools at their disposal to prevent them from getting stuck or killed I feel if you're compelled to use prides mirror, especially to become a race that only serves to make you more powerful, you should prepare accordingly.

[RogueSteampunker]

Making him run the gauntlet served to present a challenge instead of free escape as PRIDES MIRROR is intended to have but falls spectacularly short of.

Pride's mirror already has to have to traverse space to try and find one's way back to the station. Why it is suddenly not enough and deserves needing to basically force a bug on a player baffles me, however.

Miners have an insane amount of tools at their disposal to prevent them from getting stuck or killed I feel if you're compelled to use prides mirror, especially to become a race that only serves to make you more powerful, you should prepare accordingly.

Once again, it is a bug, and has been found to be one. We shouldn't be forcing players to have to gopher up every single tool they can get their hands on just to prevent themselves from getting stuck in a situation that shouldn't be happening codewise, just cause the admin online could have a personal bias against their role or the player themselves.

[kevinz000]

Pride ruin dropping people into space ruins isn't an issue.
The paper ruin walls being utterly unbreakable leads to unintended behavior however as in other cases you can break out.
From a code perspective the mirror should honestly automatically search for a non wall tile to drop into the prevent these kinds of things, or the paper ruin internal walls should be breakable, but allowing them to run the gauntlet backwards is pretty fine as they would have teleported into it either way.

While the response to Forrest isn't optimal and could have been better to reduce upset over all this, derkuleens actual actions in the round aren't deserving of punishment.

[ForrestWick]

Yeah I'm more upset at the passive aggressive responses and borderline insults than not getting off the hook immediately.

[Fractious]

Hi there, just doing a follow up to the complaint.

The post has been laying dormant for a good 2 months and I was wondering if it was still relevant in your opinion. Else I'll simply close the complaint and everyone can move on.

Feel free to DM me about it, if you need to.

Have a good one,

[ForrestWick]

Yeah you can close it, I realized I was in the wrong a long while ago.