I wasn't bragging about a ban, I may have been misguided on how we handle bans and the privacy about them, I will admit to that. At the time I fully believed that stating a ban occurred was fine but not stating who was alright. I was going off of what I knew from past experience as I was never taught ANYTHING about what to do or how to act. I personally have spoken to BlackMajor and Izzy about this and apparently its a policy in place to see how people handle things on their own, which makes sense. However, this in no way was me bragging about a ban. When I have people in chat calling me secret police and saying that I am going to thanos snap people for voicing their opinions, pardon me for assuming taking a more transparent approach would be ideal. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... b9f6b9.pngHazelBailey wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:36 amThink Nicc covered my thoughts pretty well. I think Werewolf's behavior here was absolutely unacceptable for an admin to do. Bragging about a ban while not giving the correct details then baiting further arguing is something I wouldnt accept from a player. Much less another admin.
It is definitely a wake up call alright, because I was never told that my attitude was unacceptable in any official manner by other staff, I've held this exact attitude for the six or so months before I was an admin and I continued to hold this same attitude afterwards. This is exactly how I act for the other servers that I moderate, not once has it been an issue except for now when all of a sudden staff come out of the woodwork to shit on me for it. Why wasn't this brought up to me earlier if it is such a big issue? I am all for change, but that cannot happen without conversation. Not once have I taken anything outside of administrative matters or discussion seriously, that's my whole gimmick and always has been, how you guys are suddenly saying this isn't acceptable is genuinely surprising. This is the internet, am I really meant to take an argument on the internet seriously? Previous to this complaint I didn't think so, but if that needs to change then I am all for it. No sweat off my back to do that.ForFoxSake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:53 amAll of my previous interactions with Werewolf have ended in exactly the same way here, no matter how hard I attempt to kind or agreeable, any kind of disagreement or request for better behaviour from him is immediately shot down with nonsensical excuses like "Imagine taking this so seriously."
Given the numerous times I myself, and Nik (as per his post) have attempted to talk to Werewolf about these issues (and even just assuming we're the only two to have ever attempted to do so - something I doubt is true), then I feel this thread at the very bottom line is going to have to be a major wakeup call to Werewolf that this kind of blasé attitude towards administration is not acceptable.
While writing the start of this post up, the full scale of this issue struck me. By acting the way he did, Werewolf has goaded other uses into harassing Feril from the mere accusation that he was defending the image.
I feel as though, had any regular user stirred up this level of drama against someone, they'd probably have eaten a discord server ban already.
As per your mention of trying to help me with Nik, I can say with out a doubt that neither of you two have ever tried to help me. I don't even know what you mean by help, but I can assure you that it either never happened, or there was an attempt that ended in a miscommunication of intent that I've forgotten about.
I never goaded any other uses to harass Feril, that's a mistake on their own part, I cannot control how others perceive someone's argument, hell, even I failed to understand what they were trying to argue and hopped aboard the 'Why is this guy defending CP?' bandwagon I guess you could say. But no, that was a miscommunication on their part that lead to me and several others not understanding their intents. I do understand now, but this is after much clarification.
This image was indeed illegal, electronic media is covered under US law regarding CP content, as well as artistic renditions. But yeah no lets not open that can of worms here, this is all I am going to say on the topic.SectoidDan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:55 pmI think (or at least did think prior to this) that colloquially CP is pretty widely understood to mean actual photos or videos of actual children - the type of thing that gets Discord servers and lifeweb forums nuked. Not the kind of shit you joke about, especially as staff. Though this image was not that, it was still probably against Discord's ToS as far as I understand it so deleting it was the right or at least safe thing to do, but I'm aware that's not exactly the issue here.
As far as the actual complaint here, I have to agree with Nik's take on this, it's pretty poor form from an admin and I think there's a certain level of professionalism and respect towards other players that's expected of us as staff, even towards people being banned. Both of you should've taken your discussion to DMs if you wanted to continue it as soon as someone else asked you to - that a non-staff member had to nudge a staff member towards following the Discord rules is disheartening to see.
If it is poor form why was I not told sooner? I've always had this sort of behavior online, I don't take most things online seriously, I mess around, shitpost, all that. As for the accusation of me not following rules, I genuinely don't see it, I'd argue it was close to Rule 1 and Rule 2, although I cannot precisely remember when another administrator stepped in, but if they did and I didn't follow it, I would agree that would fall under Rule 7.
As I said in response to Hazel's post I was not at all aware that we were not allowed to state that a ban occurred or the reason. I apologize for that, I genuinely didn't know.Soulstolen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:24 amI read through everything at least three times, and made sure to go over every picture as best I could in this scenario. Now let's start off by throwing aside the whole ordeal with whether it was "Truly CP or not" as this is not going to be apart of my argument in the slightest, I'll be talking about Werewolf's behavior in this.
Starting off with the very first initial picture, immidiately something is wrong here and that's the fact Wolf even decided to mention that they just banned someone. From personal experience bans are not public unless the person being banned decides to mention it, or said person was underage. Granted Wolf didn't state who was banned, they still should not take it so lightly and even give anyone else a chance to know that they were, especially since said person could have been founded out as "Oh so 'such-and-such' just got banned?" Stating you've just banned someone like that is a bit unprofessional and only sparks a match that could be a burning flame.
These three just bring me great disappointment, instead of trying to calm a situation down you meme? There's numerous other times within' the conversation you do the same thing, but these three spoke it all to me and honestly, this is the reason admins end up getting a bad rep, because they just show little professionalism and care for actual issues that either they, or someone else has caused. Copy pasting "admin man bad" because someone is trying to discuss something, three times for that matter. (They as in admins in general, not Wolf, however that was shown within' this conversation here by them.)
Now back to what I said earlier about people possibly being able to find out who it was that posted it? While this is not my main point, it can be quite misleading as a crude child cartoon doesn't equal to someone posting live tape of a man sexually assaulting a child. Not saying it wasn't bannable, but Wolf did decide to mention that someone was banned for CP, said person could have been found out, and possible attacked for something that in reality was not as harsh as depicted, in the end Wolf should never have said a word about anyone getting banned and this would not have been and issue. Second point is where they state, "Also I don't need to give context at all outside of administration matters." Well, if it was an administrative matter please tell me why it was mentioned in the first place? This is hypocritical, to mention something so drastic as someone being banned for CP, then to give zero context about the situation. Either nothing should have said at all, or clarification should have been given to the situation, preferably the former.
Another example of the unprofessionalism in this situation, being in a furry server and claiming numerous times they hate furries, joke or not, this was not the time, nor place to start saying things like that, why would we have an admin that is not okay with furries, this just makes people feel uncomfortable and possibly cold to ever asking Wolf for anything. Meanwhile, "mfw I cant ban child porn" and the very colorful amount of times :omegalul: has been used, this shows again, zero professionalism or care in a situation. No one said it wasn't bannable, all that was wanted was context on a situation, or again better yet, it not having been mentioned in the first place.
a perfect time to end the discussion and drop it, though it was not taken and instead were further pinged and messaged about the situation. I have a hard time coming to terms of why, why keep going? Ah yes, the third picture, "So tempting." My disappointment is immeasurable at this point in time.
Personal Experience
Since the day Wolf became an admin I've noticed harsh, unprofessionalism, and before they were even a full admin (Trial Admin) there was a situation with them regarding how they handed a situation, and just recently they have been talked down a few times because they get heated and start throwing insults and petty comments instead of asking one of us to handle the situation. I try to keep things professional here and may not be the most perfect when it comes to discussion with other admins, but when it comes to the playerbase, the sole reason we have adminship in the first place, we must keep calm and a level-head. This has not been shown recently, or in my eyes, since the day they were brought up.
For the longest time, they have shown unprofessionalism, a rough attitude towards those that disagree with them, and a lack of respect for other players. I will be blunt with saying I can't go on with supporting Werewolf being an admin anymore, however this is not even close to being my decision, but with a history that seems to have only gotten worse, my point will stand as is.
And yeah, of course I wasn't taking the argument seriously, I saw it as a non-issue hell I saw this entire thread as a non-issue until recently. Again, as I have said previously in this post, I do not take most things on the internet seriously. Yes it was unprofessional, but honestly there has never been a professional air about this server or the discord, It genuinely never crossed my mind at that moment that I should take anything said in the memes channel seriously.
Right, I didn't consider that at the time, nor did I know it was something I shouldn't have done. I now see how that could have been used against the person banned in a harmful manner again, I am sorry for this.Soulstolen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:24 amNow back to what I said earlier about people possibly being able to find out who it was that posted it? While this is not my main point, it can be quite misleading as a crude child cartoon doesn't equal to someone posting live tape of a man sexually assaulting a child. Not saying it wasn't bannable, but Wolf did decide to mention that someone was banned for CP, said person could have been found out, and possible attacked for something that in reality was not as harsh as depicted, in the end Wolf should never have said a word about anyone getting banned and this would not have been and issue.
I stated that because I did not believe it to be an administrative matter, again which is why I wasn't taking anything here seriously and did not see any need to provide more information about it. You're absolutely right it shouldn't have been brought up in the first place. The intent was to be more transparent but I understand now that I shouldn't have even mentioned it.Soulstolen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:24 amSecond point is where they state, "Also I don't need to give context at all outside of administration matters." Well, if it was an administrative matter please tell me why it was mentioned in the first place? This is hypocritical, to mention something so drastic as someone being banned for CP, then to give zero context about the situation. Either nothing should have said at all, or clarification should have been given to the situation, preferably the former.
Yeah, again, I had no intent of being professional in the slightest in this situation as I have mentioned earlier, I also did not understand what Feril was trying to convey at the time, miscommunications suck but that's the reality of the internet. As for the 'I hate furries' comment, there is some truth to that but its mainly hyperbole for comedic and ironic effect, obviously I am a furry and I do enjoy the furry fandom it is just the people involved where I hold some reservations. I do have a distrust for furries based on past experiences but I understand not to let a loud minority of a group affect my interactions with the silent majority that are good people.Soulstolen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:24 amAnother example of the unprofessionalism in this situation, being in a furry server and claiming numerous times they hate furries, joke or not, this was not the time, nor place to start saying things like that, why would we have an admin that is not okay with furries, this just makes people feel uncomfortable and possibly cold to ever asking Wolf for anything. Meanwhile, "mfw I cant ban child porn" and the very colorful amount of times :omegalul: has been used, this shows again, zero professionalism or care in a situation. No one said it wasn't bannable, all that was wanted was context on a situation, or again better yet, it not having been mentioned in the first place.
I am sorry to disappoint, I genuinely did not see any problem with it at the time, my reasoning is above. Is arguing against the rules? Obviously when an admin tells you to stop, you stop. At the time I did know that I should have stopped but I didn't, again, my apologies, not much I can do about it now.Soulstolen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:24 ama perfect time to end the discussion and drop it, though it was not taken and instead were further pinged and messaged about the situation. I have a hard time coming to terms of why, why keep going? Ah yes, the third picture, "So tempting." My disappointment is immeasurable at this point in time.
See my issue here is that if this was an issue for you since back when I was a trialmin, why didn't you bring this up with the head admins or better yet directly to me? I find it immensely disappointing that rather than address an evident problem sooner it was left alone. I have always been crass, blunt, and an avid shitposter. This isn't a new thing, I have always acted like this. Also I do not know what you mean by 'talked down a few times' I rarely ever get heated, although as of late I understand I have gotten genuinely frustrated or angry, I am aware of that.Soulstolen wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:24 amPersonal Experience
Since the day Wolf became an admin I've noticed harsh, unprofessionalism, and before they were even a full admin (Trial Admin) there was a situation with them regarding how they handed a situation, and just recently they have been talked down a few times because they get heated and start throwing insults and petty comments instead of asking one of us to handle the situation. I try to keep things professional here and may not be the most perfect when it comes to discussion with other admins, but when it comes to the playerbase, the sole reason we have adminship in the first place, we must keep calm and a level-head. This has not been shown recently, or in my eyes, since the day they were brought up.
For the longest time, they have shown unprofessionalism, a rough attitude towards those that disagree with them, and a lack of respect for other players. I will be blunt with saying I can't go on with supporting Werewolf being an admin anymore, however this is not even close to being my decision, but with a history that seems to have only gotten worse, my point will stand as is.
I don't know, I'm just baffled really, all of this from fellow admins has genuinely came out of nowhere, how can you harbor such feelings and not speak about them? I cannot understand it. I wasn't even going to reply to this topic because I genuinely did not and never thought this would be such an issue. I understand that me mentioning the ban was uncalled for and something I shouldn't do, and I now know now to do that, but everything else has never been an issue elsewhere. Hell on TG I earned that nickname 'based anal' because of my attitude and behavior, as well as positive notes.
I still don't see this as that big of a deal, sorry. If it is that big of a deal it should have been brought up to me personally. This is all just really quite sad to hear.
