[Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Cafaling
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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Cafaling »

Dap said they're cool with a spot of relevant peanut posting, and I've got some time to cover this, so let's boogie.

Roughly a month or so ago, on a traitor round, you were playing Sec. There was no HoS, but you were dressed up like you were. I had latejoined and found an emagged RD locker in maint. I brought it back- after grabbing a loudmode headset for memes. The round proceeded pretty normally, with Gronk running around with a 357, then getting caught. As a joke I asked to be shot with the 357. The Captain, Lolli, decided to oblige, and shoot me. Goal achieved... I went to leave through maint, the same way I came in. I had 70 brute damage and was bleeding. You opted to bar my attempts to get medical treatment, baton me into stamcrit, partially treat me just so I wouldn't die. Then you improperly searched me, failed to give me my stuff back, and following my angry reactions, outright refused to give me my bag and equipment.

Over the next 30 minutes I demanded my bag and tools back, which you ignored. I law 2'd the AI to let me in, which you used as justification for another detainment. You then, with no proof at all claimed I had an emag, and a storage implant, and ordered me to be surgically searched. There was no implant. There was no emag. But that's what you immediately jumped to. When none were found, you still refused to give me my equipment back, so I Law 2'd the AI to let me in again, and feeling reasonably pissed off, I asked the AI to make life hard for you in Sec by messing with door power.

So you removed me from the crew. I was only recrewed because the rest of the station had the common sense to realize that removing someone's law 1 protections over a petty Law 2 order is disproportionate as fuck.

This is just one example of many about the bullshit you consistently pull if you have even a smidge of authority IC. I'm amazed you think the issue here is Dap when you've shown you routinely take any opportunity you can to rip up someone's body in search of a tool that exists to avoid getting caught, with or without reasonable cause to do it.

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Dapnee
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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Dapnee »

Just because you're security doesn't stop you from validhunting. But if you must have me point out which sections I'm refering to:

Code: Select all

2. Do not forcibly inject or force-feed a member of the crew something which will reveal their antagonist status without a credible in-character reason for doing so.
3. Random searches are only allowed by security and heads, and only for a credible in-character reason.
While I can forgive the part where your warden took the time to shoot a perma prisoner cause the captain brought up they had rising bass (something the captain shouldn't of known cause they were dead when the antag happened to get it, but again, not the issue here) you went out of your way to do a search on what's very much referred to in the unacceptable section, please read the wording carefully and then remember back to our ahelps.

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Forcibly injecting someone with a mind-shield implant to see if they're a revolutionary or gangster because nothing has happened all round and you're bored.
nayser wrote:looking for stolen documents, come on... he is long dead, it doesn't even matter
Boredom isn't a reason you can use to search a corpse that's been rotting for over an hour for two items that the station doesn't really need.

The above post as well makes me feel you're not suited for security work, as your old notes bring up a few issues with your attitude in security. While I understand that notes over a year old don't mean much, they still point toward this behavior of yours being a detriment to playing security. If it's not clear, you're close to, or possibly will lose, the ability to play security if this keeps up.

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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Nayser »

Cafaling wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:21 am
Dap said they're cool with a spot of relevant peanut posting, and I've got some time to cover this, so let's boogie.

Roughly a month or so ago, on a traitor round, you were playing Sec. There was no HoS, but you were dressed up like you were. I had latejoined and found an emagged RD locker in maint. I brought it back- after grabbing a loudmode headset for memes. The round proceeded pretty normally, with Gronk running around with a 357, then getting caught. As a joke I asked to be shot with the 357. The Captain, Lolli, decided to oblige, and shoot me. Goal achieved... I went to leave through maint, the same way I came in. I had 70 brute damage and was bleeding. You opted to bar my attempts to get medical treatment, baton me into stamcrit, partially treat me just so I wouldn't die. Then you improperly searched me, failed to give me my stuff back, and following my angry reactions, outright refused to give me my bag and equipment.

Over the next 30 minutes I demanded my bag and tools back, which you ignored. I law 2'd the AI to let me in, which you used as justification for another detainment. You then, with no proof at all claimed I had an emag, and a storage implant, and ordered me to be surgically searched. There was no implant. There was no emag. But that's what you immediately jumped to. When none were found, you still refused to give me my equipment back, so I Law 2'd the AI to let me in again, and feeling reasonably pissed off, I asked the AI to make life hard for you in Sec by messing with door power.

So you removed me from the crew. I was only recrewed because the rest of the station had the common sense to realize that removing someone's law 1 protections over a petty Law 2 order is disproportionate as fuck.

This is just one example of many about the bullshit you consistently pull if you have even a smidge of authority IC. I'm amazed you think the issue here is Dap when you've shown you routinely take any opportunity you can to rip up someone's body in search of a tool that exists to avoid getting caught, with or without reasonable cause to do it.
I don't remember how exactly things went out, but i assume you're that one slimegirl who kept trying to break into brig entire round then kept law 2-ing AI to sabotage brig. This is pretty much self-antagging. I remember it was a really difficult round with a lot of chaos, it was hard to keep things in check so when i saw some one in brig who shouldn't be or trying to get into, i naturally assumed hostile intent. Regarding your items, i thrown them out in your sight, they were later gone, either you're being quirky in an attempt to justify self-antagging or there is some misunderstanding. I assumed you had storage implant because it seemed like you opened a door on your own and you had regular ID and nothing else. Given nature of stressful round full of murderous antags i said you might have a storage implant. But are you really saying i ORDERED captain to search for one surgically? After that you naturally procceeded to dedicate your self to sabotaging brig by abusing AI. I removed you from crew in attempt to stop you from sabotaging security work during a high chaos round full of murderous antags. Sure it wasn't correct to say you had storage implant since i already spoke with admin and affirmed that i may search for it only on confirmed antagonists. Oh and... you murdered some one who was not harming anyone or was not even threatening you based on assumption they are antagonist that caused explosion in the same round. I am supplexed you somehow got away with murdering some one and sabotaging security endlessly as a non-antag.
Last edited by Nayser on Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nayser
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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Nayser »

Dapnee wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:46 pm
Just because you're security doesn't stop you from validhunting. But if you must have me point out which sections I'm refering to:

Code: Select all

2. Do not forcibly inject or force-feed a member of the crew something which will reveal their antagonist status without a credible in-character reason for doing so.
3. Random searches are only allowed by security and heads, and only for a credible in-character reason.
While I can forgive the part where your warden took the time to shoot a perma prisoner cause the captain brought up they had rising bass (something the captain shouldn't of known cause they were dead when the antag happened to get it, but again, not the issue here) you went out of your way to do a search on what's very much referred to in the unacceptable section, please read the wording carefully and then remember back to our ahelps.

Code: Select all

Forcibly injecting someone with a mind-shield implant to see if they're a revolutionary or gangster because nothing has happened all round and you're bored.
nayser wrote:looking for stolen documents, come on... he is long dead, it doesn't even matter
Boredom isn't a reason you can use to search a corpse that's been rotting for over an hour for two items that the station doesn't really need.

The above post as well makes me feel you're not suited for security work, as your old notes bring up a few issues with your attitude in security. While I understand that notes over a year old don't mean much, they still point toward this behavior of yours being a detriment to playing security. If it's not clear, you're close to, or possibly will lose, the ability to play security if this keeps up.
Okay so explain how does what you quoted from rule section have to do anything with me and the situation we're discussing?
There was no random search, and if you mean my search for storage implant, i looked for it on a CONFIRMED/REVEALED/DISCOVERED syndicate agent. And my reasoning was that they left a lot of DNA traces on places with stolen items of high importance which is my reason for why i searched for it and i assure you, NOT BOREDOM.
Now back to rule 5...
"Characters may know what antagonist equipment is and what it does, but may not pre-emptively search for it without prior knowledge of an antagonist being present."
This rule basicly says i'm fully aware of all syndicate equipment and how it works but i may not look for stealth equipment if i don't know person before me is antagonist without a good reason.
I didn't go out of my way for a search, the search was litterally part of my way, after defeating blob i investigated missing items which led me back to traitor corpse. Searching a dead traitor for an implant because i found their prints all over stolen item places is a pretty clear and justifiable reason given IC'ly i am COMPLETELY/FULLY aware of what gear syndicate operatives can use.
If looking for stolen goods and attempting to detain criminals is not security's way then what is?

You're basicly just quoting examples of rules that roughly say do not attempt to randomly check people incase they are antagonists. What we're dealing with is me looking for an implant inside CONFIRMED traitor which makes quoted rules irrelevant. I feel like there's some mental gymnastics happening...

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Putnam
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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Putnam »

No, stealth items don't just require traitor knowledge, they require compelling evidence of the stealth item in particular. Just knowing they're a traitor doesn't cut it, you have to have good reason to think they have a storage implant as opposed to e.g. having hidden the items somewhere.

Nayser
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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Nayser »

Putnam wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:08 am
No, stealth items don't just require traitor knowledge, they require compelling evidence of the stealth item in particular. Just knowing they're a traitor doesn't cut it, you have to have good reason to think they have a storage implant as opposed to e.g. having hidden the items somewhere.
You see the issue with that is the fact that there's absolutely nothing in rules that says you need compelling evidence, it says you need clear and justifiable reason (which is not the same), so usually players would always use common sense, searching for implants with good reasons simmiliar to mine and it always worked out ...untill now. For about 3 years it was fine to look for storage implant on some one who obviously had it and now it's not. This is why i disagree with this decision to almost completely disallow looking for implants and i am rather sure this is called rule bending. So either talk with whoever made rules to change it up or... don't bend rules to get back at people who killed you when you antagged?

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Putnam
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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Putnam »

You're gonna have to elaborate on a clear and justifiable reason being a different thing from compelling evidence, because those two things are synonymous to me.
Nayser wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:37 am
don't bend rules to get back at people who killed you when you antagged?
Stop making shit up to make your opposition seem worse, it's an argumentation tactic that doesn't work on anyone with a brain.

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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Nayser »

Putnam wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:41 pm
You're gonna have to elaborate on a clear and justifiable reason being a different thing from compelling evidence, because those two things are synonymous to me.
Nayser wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:37 am
don't bend rules to get back at people who killed you when you antagged?
Stop making shit up to make your opposition seem worse, it's an argumentation tactic that doesn't work on anyone with a brain.
Compelling evidence is something that is impossible to deny being truth unless proven wrong by another compelling evidence.
Example: We found implant injector with his DNA and heard him say he has illegal implant.(Compelling evidence) But when we searched his body for implant we didn't find one. (Also compelling evidence)

Justifiable reason is something that can be argued wether it's truth, it's something that just makes sense.
Example: Some one ate all pizza, in this room there was only Joe. I conclude that Joe eaten all pizza.

Me "making shit up to make my opposition seem worse" is also coming from justifiable reason. There are many reasons actually.
First being the fact i have already dealt plenty with admins being angry and abusive at me because i killed/caught them while they antagged in the past, so naturally i assume other admins are just as capable of this, especially newer ones.
Main reason that something that was done for a very, very long time is found to be suddenly wrong by relatively new admin despite there being nothing written in rules about it and first person to be bothered about it is me.
Another reason i was watched very carefully, i'm not the only player so it makes sense to watch everyone unless you want to find something to specificly pick on me, i know this because i was bwoinked really quickly along with some other telltale signs.
One more reason being is adding accusation of me breaking every possible rule that may seem at least slightly relevant to my note, even if it's not really relevant. (talking about valid hunting which was just ridiculous).
And finnally, salt exists, people get tilted and love to get back at those who wronged them. Not everyone is in controll of themselves so they allow themselves to act wrong in responsible position of power. And there is not a single multiplayer game i played where people didn't get tilted.

Sadly i keep seeing new unresponsible admins come and torment the players, but thankfully just as often i see them resign.

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Putnam
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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Putnam »

Nayser wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:51 pm
first person to be bothered about it is me.
See, there you go again. This is objectively false. You made it up. You keep making these really weird assumptions and basing your entire argument on them. This entire position that you're being harassed or that it's antag bias comes from this idea that you were one of the first or only people to be bothered about this, but it's simply not true.

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Re: [Main] Dapnee, poor judgement, antag bias

Post by Nayser »

Putnam wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:13 pm
Nayser wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:51 pm
first person to be bothered about it is me.
See, there you go again. This is objectively false. You made it up. You keep making these really weird assumptions and basing your entire argument on them. This entire position that you're being harassed or that it's antag bias comes from this idea that you were one of the first or only people to be bothered about this, but it's simply not true.
This is not objectively false just because you said so. Even if i'm not first person to be bothered about it, it just means there is more abuse than i thought. I did not make it up, i built it up on what i've seen. The assumption is based on the argument, not the other way around, and argument is built on facts, for facts refer to server rules and check what i'm noted for. I have elaborated server rules as much as possible already. And while there's really no real proof to my assumption, i just see no other reason for bending every possible rule to slap me with it other than being desperate to get me banned from sec for reasons obviously being nothing else but salt.

But my assumption for reasoning behind whats done isn't main topic here. Whats main topic here is rule bending, i for one still fail to see how rule about valid-hunting applies to me, yet it's in my note. I also believe what i was noted for is not wrong, at least by the server rules. So here's what i seek, either removal of my last note or change of server rules to be more clear. Because enforcing non-existant rules is a bad practice.

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