[Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

bluefishtuna
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:29 am
Contact:

[Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by bluefishtuna »

BYOND account and character name: BluefinTuna - Abductor Agent

Noting admin: Ragolution

Note Severity: High Severity

Note: [RID 23842] As abductor agent, actively used abductor baton to aid changeling in killing targets. Refused to accept the reasoning that this was not okay. Primary rationalization was based on the fact that corpses could be converted. Further rationalized their actions by saying one of their abduction targets gave away the fact that they existed, but made no effort to have the situation rectified. Ahelp Logs: https://i.imgur.com/sQS3ABX.png

Your side of the story:

For backstory:

On a changeling round with 4 changelings, abductor midround event rolled 20 minutes into the round, and I was given the agent role.
For the next ~20 minutes, the scientist and I were able to capture 2 people that were off cameras, because everyone else was either in large groups, ERPing, or hunting. By hunting, I mean that this round of 30~ players had 5 security officers, a warden, and a head of security all hunting a single changeling. The hunt was assisted by multiple miners and random armed assistants.

Shortly before the incident the note is over occurred, I informed my partner scientist that there were 6 people erping in locked dorms if we REQUIRED the points. This lead to an admin (this previously said Ragolution but I have been informed otherwise, for anyone reading this after the edit) subtle message spamming me for multiple minutes about the SINGLE SENTENCE SUGGESTION telling me I could NOT at ALL COSTS grab people in dorms despite the fact my objectives might require it later in the round. I, ad verbatim, said they were "pre-emptively bitching and moaning" over something I hadn't even done yet or had been planning to do. They also sent snarky remarks later in the round after we were able to find one person afk and kidnapped them.

Because I was informed by admins to not go after people that were engaging in online sexual intercourse, I decided to do the next best thing. Early in the round, I had attempted to abduct the changeling (Nakura Vyr) in maintenance. Of course, because they were a changeling, they just used adrenals and beat the shit out of me. They then said over radio that they weren't a snitch, and, later in the 20-minute maint waiting phase, they came across me again and were peaceful. Of course, because my scientist couldn't find anyone on cameras that we were legally allowed to touch under the admin's ruling, we decided to go for the next best option for completing the abductor objectives to abduct 6 people - getting stragglers that were fucked up fighting the changeling. My scientist dropped me down in the bar while the changeling Nakura Vyr was beating the shit out of a shaft miner in dragon armor, and I batonned the changeling and the shaft miner into stamina critical (but the changeling just used adrenals to get out of it).
When I attempted to grab the miner, Security's goons came in and started shooting up the changeling and I with toxin smgs, so I had to dip. I fired upon the crowd of people shooting me with my pistol a few times and was teleported back up by my scientist. A few minutes later, we proceeded to drop down and grab a corpse that was killed by the changeling, and we revived and experimented on the former-corpse before sending them back on their way. This is when I was contacted by Ragolution and told to "not help murderbone with a changeling".


So the reason this note is quite absurd is because it says that I was an integral part in killing multiple people. What? What the fuck do you mean? I literally batonned one fucking person (while trying to abduct them) and the CHANGELING THEMSELF. I batonned ONE PERSON and failed to kidnap them, and that means I am somehow breaking the rules? Apparently, according to Ragolution, another large integral part of my "rule breaking" was the fact that Kevinz000 (head of security) was able to find out it was abductors AFTER we had quietly abducted someone because that person was acting like an abductee. Why am I getting punished because someone else playing the video game is smart? Hello? This isn't a rhetorical question. I do want specifically an answer about why it's an integral part of my note that the head of security is smart enough to realize when abductors happen even when they are stealthy, because the biggest complaint Ragolution had against my abductor play is that I wasn't "quiet enough".

How do you expect me to be "quiet" as an antagonist that objectively cannot act quiet. The antagonist literally creates antagonists on station with unique abilities and objectives, and the SERVER RULES say that you are allowed to know ANYTHING about antagonist abilities. What? Why am I getting punished because another person is allowed to know how abductors work and thus make an educated decision that there are abductors, and then arm everyone not erping and group them together in a roaming band? It's also apparently "against my objectives" to baton (1) person while they're distracted fighting someone else because I'm "interfering with the environment", which I just simply don't understand. The "environment" was already fucked when I decided to abduct someone, because the signs of someone being abducted are quite obvious. In case you didn't notice, we were in fact "being quiet" up until the point where we physically could not be quiet because admins told us to stop. Yes, I'm putting this one on you, Ragolution. If you wanted me and the scientist to keep being quiet and not interact with the round, you shouldn't have spam subtle messaged me telling me not to pick up easy targets in stealth. You cut off our only avenue for pursuing our objectives in a quiet manner.

The server rules say "Do your objectives. A minimum effort is required when you are an antagonist, especially in team antag roles", but the noting admin actively tells me to not do my objective. Since the rules also say admins are allowed to override any rule they want if they feel like it improves the round somehow, I comply. However, I do believe it's an abuse of this privilege to tell people to actively break the rules or else you'll punish them with your admin authority, and then punish them anyways.
Furthermore, I was told it was a bad thing to work with the changeling. As per server rules, you are allowed to work with crew and antagonists if it serves your objectives as an antagonist. How is this a bad thing to not immediately try to validhunt the changeling with the crew? I'm an antagonist. Why would I try to validhunt another antagonist when it goes against my objectives (since you can't really abduct a changeling).



So, outside of the arguable parts of the note that don't involve the rules at all, it is clear there are at least portions of the note that are factually incorrect. I understand that the citadel admin team generally denies note appeals, but come on. Are you seriously going to keep OBJECTIVELY incorrect notes on people at HIGHEST SEVERITY, even if you're going to ignore the actual contents of the note being questionable?
Last edited by bluefishtuna on Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Silicons
Member
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:55 pm
Contact:

Re: [Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by Silicons »

Hi, I'd like to add my support to this appeal as the person who originally raised an issue about said abductors. I was originally upset about the abductor stuff because I was only aware of the abductor opening fire on security in maintenance/batonning, and I had thought they were specifically assisting and attempting to murderbone (since I've seen abductors do that before, although it's quite rare these days), coupled with the peculiar choice in drop locations. I was not aware of any of the other abductor things since we were busy chasing a changeling the whole round and even with x-ray we didn't have much luck with even spotting the abductor prior to that shootout. Given that they weren't specifically going out of their way to take down security and assist a changeling, I think the note should be re-looked at (at the very least) to put all of these into context, as abductors are still antagonists and as long as they are not intentionally attempting to force a round end through murderbone/mass destruction, I don't take issue with them.

User avatar
Ragolution
Member
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:39 am
Contact:

Re: [Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by Ragolution »

The first time I contacted you in any measure, that round, was my AdminPM. Whatever you're saying about SubtleMessages doesn't apply to me.
If you don’t stand for something, you will fall for anything.

bluefishtuna
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:29 am
Contact:

Re: [Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by bluefishtuna »

Ragolution wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:38 pm
The first time I contacted you in any measure, that round, was my AdminPM. Whatever you're saying about SubtleMessages doesn't apply to me.
alright my bad i was just assuming without fact checking but it was quite annoying and you could see why i'd assume that since you're the admin that got on me in actual ahelps

User avatar
Ragolution
Member
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:39 am
Contact:

Re: [Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by Ragolution »

I'm not gunna ask you to go through this and re-write it. I'll take another look at the note. Highest severity was clearly a mistake on my part, so that'll definitely be changed. I don't believe the note should be removed, but I am willing to "recontextualize" it so that it's more representative of the events that happened during the round.
If you don’t stand for something, you will fall for anything.

User avatar
moltoretardo
Junior Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 12:33 pm

Re: [Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by moltoretardo »

Also to be clear, you can’t know for sure if someone is SSD with the alien console. The only guy that I was definetely aware of was the rando doing nothing in the chapel (who I was told not to go against by the one receiving the note). The chaplain in his office at his desk looked pretty much alive for me hence why he was a lone target in my head. Cryo pods exists for a reason and if you can’t get the easy ssd people nor the dorms people nor the lings victim (that we literally revived), there’s only one other group and it’s the 4 metabuddies in medbay which would’ve been suicidal. I don’t think it’s fair saying the abductor helped killing the changeling’s victims since that victim was literally already dead and the other miner was already getting baseball’d into a wall. What happened was literally a counter-murderbone since the victims count got -1’d.
:woozy_face:

bluefishtuna
Junior Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:29 am
Contact:

Re: [Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by bluefishtuna »

for clarification the reasoning behind not going for ssd people is because the one ssd person we grabbed in fact died because their abductor organ killed them because they were afk and that's just shitty

User avatar
Ragolution
Member
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:39 am
Contact:

Re: [Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by Ragolution »

After further consideration, I'm going to recompose this note as;

"As Abductor, assisted a roundstart antag in killing multiple crew. Heavily reminded that the Abductor baton is a great and powerful tool."

This comes with the caveat that I am putting it up to Medium severity.

I was completely unaware of what whatever other admin had told you, and though I am still adamant in saying 'You shouldn't be helping antags kill people', you had been directly steered away from other, probably more viable options. I will emphasize that the Abductor's welcome text does say not to disturb the habitat, and other antags disturbing it doesn't rationalize you going loud.

I will offhandedly applaud your creative thinking in the fact that corpses could be recovered, revived and experimented upon, but doing so in collaboration with an antag is pretty not good. If you did such in the future, rather as an enigmatic observer than a participant, there would be zero issue.

If you feel this doesn't resolve the issue, please say so within a few days. Otherwise I'll be moving this to Resolved.
If you don’t stand for something, you will fall for anything.

User avatar
moltoretardo
Junior Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 12:33 pm

Re: [Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by moltoretardo »

Abductor didn’t help to kill multiple crew. The only person that got a bit fucked up from ~1 baton hit was a miner(ling got smacked twice)that was validhunting and still got killed by a baseball bat by the ling. The other people that didn’t even get killed were the seccies that were in the chaos of the maintenance. To my knowledge none of them died but I can’t tell for sure since it was in maint and cameras don’t reach. What I can tell for sure is that the corpse that was used for the experimentation was already 100% dead when they got picked up,untouched at that time by any of the abductors and promptly revived. After that the abductors were obligated to do nothing in their pods from the warning of an admin.
:woozy_face:

User avatar
Ragolution
Member
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:39 am
Contact:

Re: [Ragolution] BluefinTuna - Note Appeal

Post by Ragolution »

moltoretardo wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:29 am
Abductor didn’t help to kill multiple crew. The only person that got a bit fucked up from ~1 baton hit was a miner(ling got smacked twice)that was validhunting and still got killed by a baseball bat by the ling. The other people that didn’t even get killed were the seccies that were in the chaos of the maintenance. To my knowledge none of them died but I can’t tell for sure since it was in maint and cameras don’t reach. What I can tell for sure is that the corpse that was used for the experimentation was already 100% dead when they got picked up,untouched at that time by any of the abductors and promptly revived. After that the abductors were obligated to do nothing in their pods from the warning of an admin.
What I saw was the agent using their baton on somebody, then the ling butchering them with their armblade.
If you don’t stand for something, you will fall for anything.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests