Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

royalderg
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Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by royalderg »

THREAD TITLE REQUIRED: "[MAIN/RP/DISCORD/FORUMS/OTHER] THEIR CKEY - Short version of your complaint reason

BYOND Name of complaint against: Dzahlus

Your BYOND name: Royalderg

Date of issue and round ID: 2/9/2021, Round ID: 25963

Reason for complaint:

Bwoinked 4 no raisin after completing my objectives as antagonist, Killing someone in the process while recovering the Cap's laser gun, Stealing a Chem board from med, and the RPED from sci.. and helping out my other tator with their objectives by lending TC..and playing along with their solid snake rp..

Generally because this bwoink was made for a joke ERP that was started right at the end.. by the other person.. I played into it because duh its fun and evac was 7 minutes away.. and the admin clearly didn't like that I was playing into it or in their own words (which I'll post below) "not antagonizing enough"..

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... /words.PNG
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _words.PNG

I'm very well aware of what I did.. and the MAIN reason for this complaint is.. it seems the particular admin doesn't want objectives to be done sneakily and without much fan fare.. (which is how I've always tried to do my objectives..there's a shit ton of traitor items that are specifically FOR that) And seems to dislike the fact that I wasn't "antagonizing" enough despite doing multiple things listed above.. Its not my fault that nobody plays security some rounds and I roll traitor.. I'm not gonna bomb the station because "I GOTTA ANTAGONIZE OH MY GOD" If you want shit done as an admin for a traitor that has already done their things.. Maybe put on some rp pants and become syndicate and message them if they want more objectives for more TC? I'm also aware of this.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... thanks.PNG

I know bwoinks can be for corrective action but you know what's really fucking annoying.. When you're having fun with other antagonist trying to complete their goal and you get bwoinked while in the middle of having fun..

And there's a real double standard here.. because people will get bwoinked for killing someone or being TOO antagonizing while their objectives are something small.. So please pick a side with this..its annoying for reasons already stated.

Just a small edit: I'm mostly upset at the fact it was right at the end of the round..and they didn't even attempt to do anything in round to maybe contact..and cause something to happen? Give us a chance you know? Maybe play into the rp me and the person playing solid snake were doing? Literally anything but "Haha funni bwoink"

MrJWhit
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Re: Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by MrJWhit »

I've had multiple headmins over multiple times saying that ERPing as an antag is ok so long as the objectives are complete.

This is fine, if the question was "hey, did you do anything with your antag status", and the answer is "yes", that's should be enough.

dzahlus
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Re: Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by dzahlus »

Hello, thank you for raising concerns.

For the sake of brevity here is the entire ahelp log. https://pastebin.com/APsttYcW

Now, the reason I have admin PM'd you is because you were roleplaying with another antagonist in dorms. I have checked who are the antagonists and what their objectives are and have seen you and them have completed all objectives, however I have not noticed any antagonistic behaviour from you personally neither have the other admins. Due to an administrative decision by the head admin Silicons on a similar matter, I have asked the currently online admins if I should talk to you, which they all agreed on.
This is the part where I opened the ahelp ticket, because me and other admins have not noticed you do anything interesting in the round we have assumed you objective rushed and then decided to ERP. I intended to inform you that we do not condone such behaviour and that if you are an antagonist it is your perogative to keep the round interesting, if you would have simply answered with what you have done this would most likely been a non-issue. However you were immediately belittling, irritated and hostile in the ahelp which did not help your case.

Being an antagonist is hard as it requires a deliberate balance of causing intrigue and chaos without going too far or doing too little. I agree that the ruling on this is a bit inconsistent as the aformentioned head administrator is writing new rules at the moment. The objectives themselves, are in my opinion, rather uninspired at times and this is why they should be used as a guidance. As an antagonist your main goal should not be to complete your objectives but rather to make the round interesting.

Allow me to elaborate what I mean with you not being antagonizing enough and the discussion of stealth antag vs loud antag. The stealth antagonist causes intrigue and "antagonizes" the station by stealing and/or sabotaging X, Y, Z. This causes the crew to be wary and worry as to who is causing this, and will lead to investigation and mistrust which makes the round interesting. The loud antagonist causes chaos and worry by directly being a threat to the crew and/or station itself, either killing, maiming or causing major and obvious disruptions to the workflow of the station. This will spark fear, worries and manhunts which is the loud antagonists way of "antagonizing" the station. Both of these are completely valid playstyles though I will again say, that the stealth oriented objectives are rather lackluster and this will get fixed either by the new ruling by the head admins, or by an objective rework which may or may not happen. However this should not stop antagonists from being creative. I will say it again, objectives are a guideline, not the end all be all. You are absolutely free to ignore your objectives if you manage to make the round interesting without being a detriment to the fun of all.

As to your last point, yes indeed I should've voiced my issue of you not being "antagonizing enough" if I thought so earlier, however I personally did not even notice you were an antagonist and I assume the other administrators did not either at first. The reason I noticed you were an antagonist is because after I have cryo'd my in game character and spectated near round end, I saw a known antagonist, NSR, in dorms with you. This prompted me to check for antagonists and their objectives in which I saw you were one too. Basically I didn't even know you were an antag at all, if this is due to the apathy of the crew or you being too passive was unknown at the point I made the administrator PM. Again this loops back to my first point where you could have simply told us what you have done and we would have most likely left it at that during the ticket.

As for my own final point the administrators were busy with an admin event, the vines, which was triggered by a rather humorous announcement by the captain, which also contributed to the fact that we did not see you do your objectives directly. However we would not start admin events like these if we saw the station was already struck by intrigue or chaos. This in turn means that the current antagonists were not causing enough happenings on station.

Enzo_Leon
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Re: Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by Enzo_Leon »

Coming from the RP admin side you should know that story telling is critical when it comes to anything, and more so as an antag. While it *is* okay to go and ERP as an antag, it also it on the antags part to keep stuff going. It's the same thing as being a head of staff. You are able to ERP but you have obligations to the round/station/crew that come before it. If you want to only ERP then I would say just not role antag/Head of Staff on the rounds you wish to do so.

royalderg
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Re: Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by royalderg »

As long as the rules are being updated so the double standard can be fixed and the staff who it seems by this account acted on a whim, without taking in the full picture are talked to then its fine. There was no sec that round, is what you failed to mention..and the fact you didn't know I was an antag is good? That's how I like to play? I mean that's quite hard to do when I play a character that's sprite is decently unique IE purple dragon.. Its not like I can disguise that well from onlookers.. I DO mostly always play a stealth antag.. and I had two steal objectives.. I did the thing I like to do and got an emag and a storage implant.. I then rather than take on random challenges and break shit.. for fun (even though I did that as well to help the other antag NSR) Helped them out by lending TC and items.. The double standard here is hard.. some people will cause plasma fires or delam the SM and they will be bwoinked to hell but others do their objectives.. go out of their way to help the other traitors and still get bwoinked.. because 7 minutes from round end they wanted to have fun..

What "intrigue" level or "fun level" do I have to reach to be ok in the eyes of admins? What playstyles are ok by antags..do I have to ahelp before I emag something to make sure I fuck up somehow so I can have security or tiders chase me for the whole round? Like damn..

Edit: There was also one head.. who was overwhelmed.. but I still fucked up and covered my mistake.. by killing the curator with the laser gun.. So TWO emagged offices.. and a dead person isn't enough antagonization.. OR maybe the fact that there was 1 HoP and 18 assistants who couldn't care less about the in round proceedings lead to a lack of "discovery and intrigue".

The annoyance displayed in the bwoinks is because I was having fun.. at the very end of the round and you essentially took a blunt object to a fine point.. at any point you or any other admin could of given people more objectives.. or literally anything else then just berating someone for having fun. Instead you did a plant event.. Which was neat.. if not overdone because space vines have been a target of a lot of shit recently.. and then after that.. what thought process happened? Oh the admin bus is over let me check if the antags are doing anything.. OH THEY'RE IN DORMS TIME TO BWOINK.

royalderg
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Re: Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by royalderg »

And now that there is a note I'll have to appeal that here as well..or make an appeal in the correct sectors because whew that note is inaccurate to the situation fully and needs to be looked at.


Sorry one last edit cause damn.. THE VAULT WAS WIDE OPEN FOR MOST OF THE ROUND.. NSR literally broke into it took their objective... And then I walked in took the belt and the silver coins in the crate.. and then siphoned some credits for a combat knife order

So let's tally what happened all in a decent span of time. CE's office is emagged and boots are taken, Caps office and teleporter room is emagged and the gun AND the hand tele is taken, The curator dies due to laser/burn wounds, Later down the road the vault is WIDE open and everything not bolted down is taken from it..

^^^^ this is more then enough and there was even a ling with kill objectives they completed.. Do you see an issue. I do the lack of security and the fact the antags didnt just announce "IM A TOT PLZ NO ATTACK."

royalderg
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Re: Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by royalderg »

dzahlus wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:10 am
if you would have simply answered with what you have done this would most likely been a non-issue. However you were immediately belittling, irritated and hostile in the ahelp which did not help your case.

Except I did?

Hello, I see you have completed your objectives as antagonist, however, antagonists are here to ANTAGONIZE, not to greentext. The objectives are merely a guidance for struggle. In other words, do not ERP as antag, especially other antags.

Uhh I gave the other antag my other TC to help them complete their goals.. as well as completed mine..its up to them to get theirs done.. why does it matter? Bwoink them not me..I did my goals..

I also killed someone in the process of doing my goals because they saw me..if that's not antagonizing enough for you what is?

also stole a chem machine board..the RPED from sci... didn't help with the vines..like lol.

I did more then my fair share of antagonizing if you look at logs or whatever..thanks for the bwoink though.


You started the bwoink with claiming I didn't antagonize enough, that's quite rude you're essentially telling me. Despite the LIST of things I did and the assistance I gave to my other traitors.. That means nothing and your standard of "antagonization" hasn't been crossed.. I then proceed to tell you EXACTLY what I did.. give or take a few things.. with the same attitude you STARTED the bwoink with.. you literally did the FUNNY CAPTILIZATION THING. That people do when they're trying to EMPHASIZE a POINT.. So sure I was rude but the whole interaction started rude from the first admin pm.

From my perspective it goes like this

Oh I'm having fun and getting on the shuttle..after a nice traitor round lets hope I don't die or someone has hijack..

Hello, you've done exactly what you're supposed to as traitor but since I didn't personally notice it and the station isn't in shambles, I'm gonna stop you right there and tell you..that you need to be more antagonizing without directly explaining what you did wrong or how this can be done. Thanks don't ERP in dorms

Like really? This is ok and fine admin behavior especially after you admitted to not knowing the situation since you were in round yourself?

Also this has taken so long I made a meme (I improved it):
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 3_meme.png

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CygnusB
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Re: Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by CygnusB »

Hello,
"Bwoinked 4 no raisin"
keep in mind bwoinks/admin PMs don't necessarily mean you're in trouble in any way, it's a tool to gather info officially.
"it seems the particular admin doesn't want objectives to be done sneakily and without much fan fare.."
not particularly dzah, it depends on the context; we generally allow antagonists to be chill if
-there's none or barely any security staff on board
-lowpop
on the contrary, you're expected to be causing general trouble if
-security has 2+ members AND there's nothing happening in the round

going for steal objectives cleanly and doing nothing for the rest of the round is the bare minimum you could do, but given how theft objectives work, it's either you're cleanly stealthing, or you're busted by sec.
IMO, if you can't read the room, you should adminhelp prior to engaging in private scenes to get an admin to verify if it'd be okay for you to... do nothing relevant to the round/your antag status.


Either way. I don't see the point in this complaint (however the note appeal is perfectly valid in this case).

royalderg
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Re: Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by royalderg »

CygnusB wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:51 am
"Bwoinked 4 no raisin"
keep in mind bwoinks/admin PMs don't necessarily mean you're in trouble in any way, it's a tool to gather info officially.

Either way. I don't see the point in this complaint (however the note appeal is perfectly valid in this case).
The same reason why bwoinks don't necessarily mean disciplinary action will be taken, Complaints aren't advocating for a lynch all the time.

I just wish for this to be archived for (if) any future situations that pop up. If I were to be completely silent and not launch a complaint as well as an appeal I'd be missing out on half of the reason the situation was noted and or an "issue" for myself and the individual I'm complaining about.

Thank you for the response.

Edit: "going for steal objectives cleanly and doing nothing for the rest of the round is the bare minimum you could do."

True good thing I didn't do that and assisted my other antag with multiple things.

"IMO, if you can't read the room, you should adminhelp prior to engaging in private scenes to get an admin to verify if it'd be okay for you to... do nothing relevant to the round/your antag status."

Yes but I didn't realize the last 7 minutes before EVAC were that essential to antagonistic behavior when the other hour and 23 minutes have been spent progressing towards my goals or another antag's. But if they are I'll ahelp anything before the shuttle docks. Thanks.

royalderg
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Re: Main, Dzahlus, Uneeded Bwoink and Targeting

Post by royalderg »

Seems they also wish to bring things outside of the forums and unto discord despite me being told to ask them (the specific thing I asked in the screenshot) by Silicons.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

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