[Nicodeimos] TrojanCoyote - Poor escalation and self antagging

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Trojan_Coyote
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[Nicodeimos] TrojanCoyote - Poor escalation and self antagging

Post by Trojan_Coyote »

BYOND account and character name: TrojanCoyote/Savara Lapp

Banning admin: Nicodeimos

Ban type/duration (where you are banned from and for how long): Main, note

Ban reason: Warned for poor escalation and self-antagging, as security officer decided to play a prank on the captain by cuffing and collaring them and were promptly demoted. Proceeded to make a stun prod and chemical grenades to continue bothering the captain until things came to a head with the captain attempting to tase them and initiating a fight that lead to the captain switching to their sabre in response to chemical warfar, at which point a traitor with the objective to kill the captain intervened while the sec officer was stamcritted and being executed. They later stopped the traitor and healed the captain, but it still stands this whole situation could have been avoided if you hadn't pursued messing with the captain to begin with.

Your side of the story: Chayse and I had both during previous rounds on this character, had a running joke of stunning/pushing each other into stamcrit as a joke. They signed on as captain, and myself as security officer. They named the station Catboy Sanctuary 13, to which I made a joke about spaying and neutering your pets, and they asked how you would spay a catboy, to which I said, they're basically catgirls with more bits. I then hacked the autolathe, got a lockable collar and key, disablered them into stamcrit and put the collar named "Catgirl Prime" on them, drug them to an airlock, threw the key (to which new ones can be printed from the lathe), took their pda to get into medical, stuck em in cryo for a few seconds for the unconcious effect, removed their cuffs and shook them awake. They then arrested me and removed ALL access from my ID, stripped me out of any security gear, and let me go. We later had a conversation while they were in science about how I thought it was stupid to do so over a prank, and they cited a lot of really petty reasons for doing so. I made a haloperidol smoke grenade, a stunprod and bola along with cable cuffs, set off the smoke, and stunprodded them in an attempt to restore my job and put a new collar named 'Asshole prime' on them. They woke up before I could put cablecuffs on them, and proceeded to stun me with a stunsword, and then attempt to cut my head off with their saber, at which point Amy showed up and pulled a stetchkin, shooting them to hardcrit. I was now in softcrit, and they continued to beat Chayse more than to death. A wandering medibot healed me enough that I could get up and drag Chayse into Security while I was making a plan to kill Amy for being an obvious traitor and killing Chayse, which was when I was initially bwoinked. I replied that I needed time to respond, killed Amy and took Chayse to medical, where I revived them quickly enough for their memory to be unaffected and spent the next 20-30 minutes fixing their 4 major wounds. I was then given the note of: Warned for poor escalation and self-antagging, as security officer decided to play a prank on the captain by cuffing and collaring them and were promptly demoted. Proceeded to make a stun prod and continue bothering the captain until things came to a head with the captain attempting to tase them and initiating a fight in which a traitor with the objective to kill the captain intervened while the sec officer continued to help on the basis of being fired and the captain switching to lethals. This whole situation could have been avoided if you hadn't pursued messing with the captain to begin with. To which I had to explain when things happened, giving me the idea that there was no investigation beyond surface level kneejerk aghost observation. It was then edited to the current.

Why you think you should be unbanned: TLDR; I played a collar catgirl joke on the captain, was demoted to less than an assistant, used nonlethal smoke and stunprod to attempt to get my job back after they gave me bullshit reasons for demoting me, and a traitor took advantage of the situation as I was dying to complete one of their objectives, and was swiftly killed in return by me, who proceeded to revive the captain. All in All, I feel as if this was poorly investigated, and I think that had Chayse not died at all, I wouldn't have gotten a note. I fail to see where 'self antagging' or 'poor escalation' comes into this as I didn't harm him, the original prank lasted for all of 3 minutes, the secondary would've lasted a similar time, and the reprecussions of the antag tagging advantage only lasted less than 5 before Chayse was back in the game. In my eyes it was pretty normal IC shenanigans.

log screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/pAAcT29

I really really feel as if this was just poor investigation with a flimsy note reason on top of it. And that had it not resulted in the death of Chayse to an antag that took advantage, wouldn't've been looked twice at.

Cited rules for clarity: Escalation - Escalate conflicts reasonably, don’t go from a punch to killing someone, don’t round-remove player characters without great reason. Talk first before attacking where reasonable. <- In my opinion, going from talking to a nonlethal takedown is reasonable, and I would've never used harmful force, being a roundstart secoff.

Antagging - Players are allowed and encouraged to spark reasonable in-character conflict. <- Pretty self explanatory, joke leads to demotion, demotion leads to attempted arrest to get job back.
Try to have an IC reason to cause trouble - or at the very least, cause trouble in a creative, non-repetitive way.<- The demotion to 0 access and the degrading 'Fired' Job title feels like IC reason.

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NicoDeimos
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Re: [Nicodeimos] TrojanCoyote - Poor escalation and self antagging

Post by NicoDeimos »

I admit I jumped to conclusions when starting the ticket because I had seen you arming up after the demotion and complaining to the captain prior to when the fight started. After you pointed out the mistakes I did take a look at the logs and made the corrections. It was still imo a perfectly lawful demotion and the response being virtually mutiny, while non-lethal, was still armed with a stunprod and sleeping gas. I'm not familiar with your and Chayse's relations, but for a reasonable demotion it came off as excessive.

Trojan_Coyote
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Re: [Nicodeimos] TrojanCoyote - Poor escalation and self antagging

Post by Trojan_Coyote »

Again, as I said, stunprod and sleeping gas is pretty par for the course against someone with 2 disablers and a baton, not including the stunsword they had that I didn't know of. I also cited the rules that you did in my note and why I felt that they weren't particularly breaches of them in my opinion.

zI-H482
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Re: [Nicodeimos] TrojanCoyote - Poor escalation and self antagging

Post by zI-H482 »

Alright, after reviewing this, I can see a few issues. What really sticks out to me is the initial prank. You were a security officer and they were a captain. If there’s more to why you tossed ‘em into stamcrit, collar and cuff them the first time, I would like to hear it but it seems pretty over-the-top for a joke that carried on from previous rounds and a joke they didn’t seem to be in on given how they apparently responded with some “petty reasons” when answering for the demotion. If that’s all there was to it, I’d consider the prank a rule 9 and 5 issue, namely you’re supposed to give a minimal time of day to IC authority and you’re also supposed to try be a Security Officer.

This isn’t to say the prank was bad in and of itself. I could see it being fine if you were playing a Clown/Mime or if the two of you were just assistants faffing off. However, when you’re dragging around the captain while playing the role that’s supposed to be the rescue ‘em in such a circumstance, something is awry.

What happened afterwards was fairly normal escalation, though a bit on the heavy side. The problem still remains that what started the incident wasn’t.

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