[jaybird1] Shadowtail117 - RP server LOOC/OOC/Dchat ban

[Shadow]

BYOND account and character name: shadowtail117 - N/A

Banning admin: jaybird1

Ban type/duration (where you are banned from and for how long): RP server ban from OOC, LOOC, and deadchat.

Ban reason: "Because he keeps harrassing other players, we have warned him and muted him from Dchat for the same reason. This is a straw that broke the camels back ban, please appeal on the boards."

Your side of the story:

I am aware of only a handful of incidents that would fall under this category, most of which I do not think are enough to warrant a ban, even collectively.

The first case was when someone told me that Jaybird's character, Trenton Stevens, had done some questionable things when operating on a patient. I joined the server and ghosted to see what had happened, and after I saw him about to make a similarly questionable decision, I remarked on it in deadchat. Jaybird apparently did not like this and, apparently still adminned and still viewing deadchat, got into an argument with me over it. I was also informed that before my arrival, Jaybird had gotten so angry over people roasting them in deadchat that they muted the entire channel until another admin had to intervene and remind them that deadchat preferences were a thing.

The second case surrounded an apparently-admin-sanctioned character, also involving Jaybird, in which Colfer was allowed to join as "Real V1 From Ultrakill" to go fight spiders. I saw this on the manifest and inquired both in an ahelp and in-character (as the HOS) since I wasn't sure if this was a greytider or not. After I learned that the character had explicitly been sanctioned despite very clear rules regarding naming characters after real-life characters, I decided to leave the round and remark in deadchat. Jaybird seemed to take this personally and forcefully removed the character from the round/manifest, but not before making more scathing replies.

The third case was an incident surrounding one of Roniko's characters antagonizing security for the better part of an hour. Without dredging it back up too much, I acknowledge my overreaction to the situation, but at the time, their constant taunts over the radio made me irate, and after I left, I vented about it in deadchat again. (Roniko, at this point, was still in the round and didn't see any of these messages). I left shortly afterward.

The fourth and final case in my memory was a few days ago when I had ghosted the round and heard my character (Khalek Hazzok)'s name mentioned, and after reading the conversation, I realized that the character in question was more or less gossiping about him behind his back. I brought this up in LOOC as I was genuinely curious if the player was OOC-ly offended by something he did, to which they replied that their character was the one offended, and over something that happened between them over a month ago. I remarked briefly and jokingly that they were apparently still salty over that and closed the game shortly after. I assume some time after this was when I actually received the ban, as I didn't realize it until the next day.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

The first incident was not limited only to me. I only joined to see what was going on, and Jaybird could have disabled their deadchat preference instead of arguing with me if they felt I was being rude. The second incident was also Jaybird's doing, and I am still unsure of exactly the circumstances around letting an Ultrakill character join the round. The third I see to be more an IC issue (or at the least, a misapplication of corporate regulations on my part), and no real harassment took place. Roniko and I also settled the matter privately. The fourth offense is the most egregious, and in hindsight, I would definitely have approached it differently; it's oftentimes a lot better to say nothing if you have nothing good to say. However, I do not believe my conduct warrants a three-way, permanent ban from arguably very important in-game communication channels.

Jaybird and I have a sort of history, including these first two instances and between some of our characters going back several months. Even within admin tickets on Discord, I believe they have a negative view of me, and I am concerned that this impacted their responses and their decision to make this ban. They are one of the only people I butt heads with, and in the majority of instances outside of what I outlined above, I only use LOOC for genuine reasons.

I have had my OOC preference disabled for several months, and only turn it on whenever a serverside issue occurs (such as extreme lag), and likewise, I rarely ghost long enough to speak in deadchat. The above cases only occurred because I was ticked off and wanted to vent my feelings, and I admit that there are better forums for that than bringing it all to the server. I will not repeat that kind of behavior again. The LOOC ban has impacted me the most since it is almost essential to play smoothly; there are frequent times when one needs to communicate something out of character, and without LOOC, that becomes difficult without skirting around the rules and using say/me messages to get it across. I don't want to have to do that and risk further punishment.

As a whole, I have been attempting to distance myself from the community, as I have come to realize that I tend to care more about in-game happenings than I should and thus get riled up about them easily. These events are major outliers and not indicative of how I usually behave. I ask that this ban be lifted so that I can continue to use arguably important functions of the game for the benefit of the people around me. I promise I will not abuse these channels to instigate or join OOC conflicts between myself and others. Thank you for your consideration.

[Cataclysmanic]

I can't say I'd agree with removing an OOC ban only a few days after it's been administered. Jay wasn't the only admin who thought this was a reasonable course of action.

Personally I suggest giving it a week or two and then coming back. Time can help you better understand what went wrong so this doesn't happen again, and can help us gain better trust in you that it won't.

TLDR; I think you need more time, but that's just me. If another admin thinks otherwise, they can say so.

[Sakuya]

I'm in agreement that more time should be allowed to pass before an appeal can be taken into consideration.

[Auraknight]

I'm not voting for one way or another in this matter, but to address some of your points here:

Jaybird could have disabled their deadchat preference instead of arguing with me if they felt I was being rude.

It is part of the responsibilities of a game admin to step in when people are being toxic. 'Just walk away while I continue being rude' isn't the correct anwser- And while it could have been a ticket, and from the sound of things, should have been moved into a ticket shortly after it continued, that's a far gentler approach then simply muting you on the spot. A warning, if you will.

The second incident was also Jaybird's doing, and I am still unsure of exactly the circumstances around letting an Ultrakill character join the round.

Jaybird had little to do with this case, or, as far as I remember, anything to do with the character being there; but I'm not currently recalling the exact exchanges that came up.

The third I see to be more an IC issue (or at the least, a misapplication of corporate regulations on my part), and no real harassment took place. Roniko and I also settled the matter privately.

The matter was not settled privately, it was brought up in LOOC, with at least two other unrelated people in LOOC range. It's not a good look. What happened between you and them afterwards privately has no bearing on the ban.

I have had my OOC preference disabled for several months, and only turn it on whenever a serverside issue occurs (such as extreme lag), and likewise, I rarely ghost long enough to speak in deadchat. The above cases only occurred because I was ticked off and wanted to vent my feelings, and I admit that there are better forums for that than bringing it all to the server. I will not repeat that kind of behavior again. The LOOC ban has impacted me the most since it is almost essential to play smoothly; there are frequent times when one needs to communicate something out of character, and without LOOC, that becomes difficult without skirting around the rules and using say/me messages to get it across. I don't want to have to do that and risk further punishment.

Then don't. It's perfectly possible to play a role playing game without meta-level communication. Or, alternatively, wait out your ban, since, after all, as you say just afterwards;

As a whole, I have been attempting to distance myself from the community, as I have come to realize that I tend to care more about in-game happenings than I should and thus get riled up about them easily. These events are major outliers and not indicative of how I usually behave. I ask that this ban be lifted so that I can continue to use arguably important functions of the game for the benefit of the people around me. I promise I will not abuse these channels to instigate or join OOC conflicts between myself and others. Thank you for your consideration.

You're not doing yourself any favours pulling a 'I've been caring less about how I'm seen here' card, and given that you can think of four major events that could cause issue, a temporary chat ban is the best outcome you could hope for. While I won't say if this ban should be immediately removed or not, I am of the opinion that having it lifted would be worse for all parties involved, and that perhaps while it might have a duration defined at the moment, it certainly should stick for longer then it currently has.

[Silicons]

Honestly it's pretty yikes for admins to step in as an administrator at all regarding anything relating to themselves. Part of the duties of administration is to be the bigger person and walk away.

We've already had an internal discussion about that. Not going to happen again, not having it. Admins cannot hit below the belt with their buttons just because a player does. I frankly stopped caring who's instigating at some point last year, it takes two people to start, and continue a fight on the internet, and everyone involved has responsibility to drop the issue and de-escalate, even if the person originally instigating usually gets the blame.

As for you and everyone else involved, there's a point where I have to ask what I have to gain by continuously shielding you from the criticism surrounding you badgering people aggressively in OOC channels. The whole OOC banning going on at all is because there's a few people who honestly (to my observation) don't make a lot of issues in game but somehow can't be put with others in OOC channels without it turning into a situation akin to a binary explosive.

The ban will probably stay in place for a few more weeks. When / if it's lifted, leave people alone and don't badger people over trivialities. Everyone will be happier for it.

[Shadow]

Thank you for the replies and the perspectives surrounding this. I won't argue anything said since I don't want to make it into a back-and-forth issue on the thread, but I did catch this PR which more than solves my main reason for this appeal: https://github.com/Citadel-Station-13/C ... /pull/5140

Ultimately, I care the most about being able to LOOC as my character. As I said before, I don't use deadchat often, I keep OOC muted almost always, and after what has happened in the last few days, I will tone down, if not stop using LOOC altogether when ghosting. But I will have to disagree with Auraknight and say that being able to use it as my character (e.g. to indicate a gameplay issue or to announce that I need to go AFK) is invaluable in a game like this. So, assuming this PR is accepted by the maintainers, then I have no qualms waiting out the ban.

[Silicons]

lifted