[Drewfus] timothytea - note appeal

[timothytea]

BYOND account and character name: Timothytea, Timothy Teakettle
Noting admin: Drewfus
Ban type: Note
Note Reason: Murdered someone as non-antag, reminded that is against rule 8.1, no self-antagging

I thought I would try appealing this note because it seems mega dumb. I killed the mime because they pretended to be gronk using a ventriloquist dummy, and announced their love for me over comms. A very short amount of time later, I realised it was in-fact the mime being a dick, and not gronk, so I beat them to death with a bat. The mime fought back with a toolbox, and ultimately lost.

I get the whole no-murder thing, but I don't think you should be able to be noted for justifiable murder, especially when it's someone messing with you like they did. The captain took me in to security after I did it, and then immediately just let me go once I told them what the mime did, it was handled IC and the mime got what they deserved, I don't see why I should get noted.

[Drewfus]

At the time I applied the note, my only context was watching Timothy and the Mime fight. Assumed Timothy killed them 4no raisin, and despite reading logs, wasn't 100% sure exactly why they fought. Regardless though - it was against the rules, and I'm confident any of the admins would've given them the same reply; Don't self-antag.

That being said... I can see where Timothy is coming from. I don't think they had intentions to grief. Part of me wants to agree to revoke this note, because it feels overbearing and railroady to flat out disallow in-character fights. But self-antag rules are very black-and-white: Only antagonists can murder. So I'm not sure if I'm even allowed to revoke it, since doing so would create an exception to the rules.

psssst also what the heck is with Geemiesif's note, "warned for using all caps"

[Putnam]

But self-antag rules are very black-and-white: Only antagonists can murder.

Yeah normally I don't minimod or try to dispute things and obviously I can be ignored here but the rules actually do explicitly allow for non-antags to murder, or at least kill, under rule 1:

Acceptable:
Breaking open a window to save a dying player.
Getting into an argument that evolves into a brawl that evolves into a fight with weapons that ends in death.

Obviously whether this is a case of that is highly disputable, and whether the rule should actually read like this is too, but it's not really so "black-and-white".

[HazelBailey]

My question is, was there anything that happened between the Mime impersonating Gronk and you beating them to death with a bat? If not, then it's still poor escalation, since you just jumped to beating them with a bat. If so, then yeah, depending on further context, lifting the note might be reasonable

[timothytea]

They impersonated them and then I went after them with a baseball bat, I was significantly slower then them and they ran away for a while, and then they impersonated me on comms saying I had killer tomatos (I didn't), and I eventually found them, they were faster then me but they ended up stopping running and they grabbed a toolbox and fought me instead of running and I won and then killed them.

[ForrestWick]

The killer tomatoes thing was a joke and very intentional sarcasm. Also prior to escaping Timmy the first time he did land a few hits and continued to pursue, which caused me to get a toolbox and fight back.

I myself held no negative feelings toward the altercation. In all honesty I thought it was funny. My only issue was someone else tried to loot my body before I got taken to medical. Timmy was dealt with IC as he should have been and I have no doubt if it was someone he was less familiar with he wouldnt have reacted the way he did. Because he knows me enough, he likely felt more comfortable and I myself was fine with it. If I wasnt, I would have ahelped after the first encounter.

At the very least I want to ask Drew include my side on the note so that it isn't as harsh

[Drewfus]

Knowing now the full context behind what happened, I'm in favor of removing the note. Typically when you think of "Self-antag", it's one person going on a rampage and spam-clicking a random spaceman until they go hortizontal, seemingly just because they want to kill. When Forest died and I ghosted over to him, that's exactly the scene I saw. Though logs showed Timothy did have a premeditated reason to go ham on the mime, in the moment I feared the worst. So, just in case Timothy did intend to self-antag, it seemed fair to warn and minor note Timothy not to kill 4no raisin because that's the typical sign of self-antag behavior.

However... yeah they probably didn't self-antag. If the fight really was in good faith, the note seems kind of meaningless if so.
Willing to revoke this note since it was missing context, and was for an erroneous warning.

[ForrestWick]

Like I said, man, I personally have no issues with it and Timmy knows as much.

[HazelBailey]

Given Drew said he was willing to lift this, I'm gonna go ahead and do so.