[Trojan_Coyote] Hatterhat - Validhunting Note Appeal Against EA Chaplain

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Hatterhat
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[Trojan_Coyote] Hatterhat - Validhunting Note Appeal Against EA Chaplain

Post by Hatterhat »

BYOND account and character name: Hatterhat, ckey hatterhat, character Harold Robinson
Banning admin: Trojan_Coyote
Ban type/duration (where you are banned from and for how long): Note, no ban associated
Ban reason:
2021-03-30 00:38:49 | CitadelStation | Trojan_Coyote
RID 26588 After asking if he's allowed to commit a hatecrime and a very vague 'maybe' from one of four sec officers, as a shaft miner proceeded to hunt the chaplain traitor in an attempt to kill him. warned against validhunting

Your side of the story:
I was doing my thing on Lavaland, where I got the free golem ship turned into a mining outpost because nobody was using it, and the mining team had gotten materials sorted out for the station, so we were effectively sitting on our hands unless we wanted to go out of our way and dunk on fauna or do whatever bored miners do. I then heard the AI announce "sat being assaulted" and then the only secoff I recognized as having arrived, Jamie(?) Reade, called out cog doors. I conferred with him about what we thought it was, basically coming down to "late clockies or chaplain?" "probably chaplain", and then I asked "hey, can I commit a hate crime" and he said "maybe?".
I assumed that he would have extrapolated "committing a hate crime" to "trying to beat the shit out of the instant ranged stunhand chaplain who had very much played his cards". Maybe he didn't. Oh well.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
I think what should be mentioned in the note is the fact that the chaplain traitor was, in fact, using the Eldritch Affairs "reverse-engineered" Clockwork Slab, which meant that he was, in essence, an almost-solo Clockwork Cult team, which means that he's Very Loud and Very Obvious about his antag status.
A clearing of the note would be nice too, but at minimum, a clearing up of the status of "what use of force is justified against a funny chaplain doing the opposite of his anti-cult job" would be nice.

Silicons
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Re: [Trojan_Coyote] Hatterhat - Validhunting Note Appeal Against EA Chaplain

Post by Silicons »

so i'm going to be entirely blunt today
as the person who originally made the item
the last thing i wanted to happen is for people to do the "i'm a cultist but not a cultist, how dare you hunt me" thing.
it is an item meant to metabreak and confuse and give chaplains (and anyone who trades for it) an alternative route of antagging. it is not meant to give you admin protection when you for all intents and purposes are pretending to be a dangerous conversion antagonist.
i have already warned people to stop with the "cult chapel should be legal, whine when you get hunted for it" gimmick.
while not quite at that level, if you act like a cultist (a non deconvertable one at that), you should expect to be treated as such. you bought into the consequences you will receive at the whims of the crew when you acquired the item. if you are attacking the ai sat, as someone who is pretending to be a cultist, you should not be surprised when the crew comes to stop you. there's also a reason i made the item cost so much so it can't just be bought on a whim. if you decide to do an uninteresting gimmick a certain few people have already ran to the ground, do not be surprised when the crew is unamused and treats you as a threat rather than as entertainment.

the two options i have are overrule this and add a precedent line that pretending to be an obvious, dangerous conversion antagonist will open you up to retaliation at the same level as if you were actually one, doing whatever you were doing (e.g. if you can hunt an actual cultist in a certain situation, someone using EA would receive the same treatment, the only "exceptions" being that in terms of actually preparing like making mechs/passing out guns to everyone/rushing mass mindshielding, a best faith effort should be made to distinguish if it's easy to so you don't have the entire crew prepping for war for the next 2 hours if it's already obvious that it's just one guy as it would be hilariously awful to play as any other antagonist during this), or if i were unable to do that i would simply have the item removed wholesale due to the complete inability shown by 80% of the people using it to understand what it was actually made for. i am choosing the former, barring any further, valid objections in the next few days.

tl;dr if you choose this item that takes most of your tcs and gives you powers that cannot be removed barring the destruction of every single copy of tomes/slabs on the station from a dangerous conversion antags you lose your right to complain about getting beat up for it 98.5% of the time.

Trojan_Coyote
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Re: [Trojan_Coyote] Hatterhat - Validhunting Note Appeal Against EA Chaplain

Post by Trojan_Coyote »

If you're ruling that it's hypervalid I'm cool with removing the note. Just felt it was a bit meh with 4 security and a very vaugely worded question which, when I asked the sec officer in question, didn't realize that's what they intended to do.

Silicons
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Re: [Trojan_Coyote] Hatterhat - Validhunting Note Appeal Against EA Chaplain

Post by Silicons »

im going to remove the note and say that yeah
people using EA should be expected to be treated as an actual person of that faction, if things go south

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