I'm going to reply to one of the threads instead of both because this is basically the same case and because I'd rather not type two up since it's tiring enough with Raiq ban evading 5 times to throw popcorn at the onlookers.
There's a few things to address.
- There's very few times where applying a ban, much less a permanent ban, before an adminhelp ticket is open is the right course of action. It's not the case here.
- Von's previous note history is usually being too much of a "raging gamer" (see: basically can be summarized as 'killing people unnecessarily'). Von's recent incident prior is not to me a good example of a violation regarding public ERP rules and super related to this specific case. It's an example of behavior but as long as the two parties have rectified this I'm willing to call it a day regarding that.
- I worded the rule regarding ERP and sexual content
https://citadel-station.net/wikimain/in ... al_Content very strongly because I don't want rules lawyering in the
other direction. In reality, there's a nuance towards enforcement towards public ERP (duh). The thing to take note is that
- This is citadel
- You will be exposed to people flirting with each other in sexual ways whether in person or over the radio
- If it gets to be too much, you're obviously allowed to ask them to stop whether IC or over LOOC (the latter usually if it's explicit enough this is warranted and enforcable by administration)
- Obviously we don't have a list of kinks that admins will ask people to move for which is why,
- It's usually seeing who's good and bad faith about this rather than exactly what they did. The times people are actually going to get in trouble for this is usually when they're going out of their way to more or less weaponize their fetish to be obnoxious to other players.
In the screenshot chain I don't see anything too obviously ERPy leading up to the comment. It's cheesy sexual pick up lines. If y'all wanted to get in a fight in it ICly that'd honestly be fine by me but here's, the other thing
- Von knows they've been involved in too many incidents as of late. I'm not sure why "first of all, go fuck yourself" is a good response here. It doesn't matter how much some player annoyed you in the past, if you appear like a dick in the present to them when they aren't actively metagrudging you in current day,
you will look like the bad guy, no matter what. Almost no one is going to look at that string of screenshots and disagree that this is unbecoming conduct there.
- Going further with, paraphrased, "we will start talking about fetishes to annoy you" is quite literally
weaponizing your fetish to be obnoxious, which is far, far more unacceptable than cheesy pick-up lines.
I'm not going to say this didn't deserve a punishment, because frankly, this is a down abhorrent response to someone telling you to leave. Even if that person personally pisses you off. That said, this did deserve a ticket at the very least before we had to come onto the forums and have 50 unrelated people pile on with their opinions along with banned players coming back from the dead to shit on the server for their own enjoyment. The only time a situation doesn't is when it's clear cut griefing on the tier of "this person is attacking everyone wordlessly" and even then we tend to ask first.
It could have been perfectly reasonable to say something along the lines of "No, we're just flirting". Even being a bit rude about it is alright. The way you responded isn't and is going to polarize a lot of people who look at the case against you. I'm not even remembering what Snowdragon did in the past (or rather it's not relevant to me now because I have had my own run ins with them in the past too, funny you all mention that), but it's not particularly super relevant in the now. The same way I don't think Von's prior note history is super relevant for this because it's unrelated, other than perhaps Von not taking a hint to be less toxic and volatile on purpose, even as a response.
All in all
- I personally wouldn't leave this ban at a perma. It should be a good time to remind to everyone involved to respond to these things in a nicer way (or at least in a way that isn't shitty enough that it'd be bad if we didn't do something about it from an administrative perspective and could allow it to feasibly be resolved IC, especially with the connotations of who Von is as a player and the reputation that they have built themselves on the server). This would probably be a day at most if I did it but then again I'm very much on the lenient side of the admin spectrum so there's that.
- It regardless stands as a valid administrative action because frankly I'm not here to defend telling people to fuck off and threatening to make them uncomfortable on purpose in retaliation either. That's shitty, and someone who's been playing here for so long should know this.
- I'll regardless leave R0 to make the closing statement if they'd like to because they were actually here for more of the incident, and I've just finished parsing the initial post, banning reason, a few posts from Teak and Lolli and R0's, and some logs. I'm not even going to go into the string of unnecessary posts down below because I frankly have made up my mind on this through that alone. Ban appeals isn't a place for literally everyone to cluster up and argue about the semantics of the ERP standards rule. IF you'd like to do that, you know where to find me, on the actual discord, in staff forums, if you want to push some feedback regarding current rules which is at the end of the day my problem.