Complaint against admins and old players disrupting sec for "memes"

[Altheor]

After ending randomly assigned to warden, I found it interesting and started playing more as warden.

But there was a couple rounds where I was absolutely miserable playing as warden, and there was something in common in all those rounds: admins or very old players, interesting in "memeing" whatever that is.


Examples:

Viola was Head of Security, Mekhi was Head of Science and acting Captain.

Viola started shooting some guy, that was shooting her back in the brig, so I went out to help, he stole my stunbaton and stunned me, after some chasing I arrested him, Viola came and said: "Oh, no need to arrest him, it was just memes." And released him. He then immediately after being released, stole my stunbaton again (I wasn't even fighting him anymore), and stunned me again. Viola laughed and let him go.

Clown was syndicate, started to emag everything, Viola offered her gasmask to clown to emag. Later clown kept breaking into brig to try to provoke me, for exmaple turning on and off the energy sword non-stop in front of warden's door, within sight of Viola and Mekhi, and they did nothing to stop it.

Viola and Mekhi spent a good part of the round in science doing who knows what while lots of trouble was going on, including people ending dead, and kept ignoring me calling for them on security channel.

Later when an antag was caught, Mekhi that put the antag in permabrig, and no procedures were followed at all, not even telling me there was someone in the brig in first place.

Whenever Mekhi wanted a weapon, he walked inside the armoury, while carrying Haley Yorsh on his back. Also gave weapons to her, she was scientist (not security)

Later on they arrested Julio Steele, refused to tell me why.

After things got hairy (multiple peopel arrested, antags acting, etc...) many civilians broke into the brig (for example one guy dragged a piano to the security area and started to play non-stop), clown started to do "pranks" using his syndicate items, etc... Viola kept repeating it was "memes" didn't let me do anything about it.

On that same round, seemly admins (judging by the character claiming he "prayed" for it), gave Angelo the power to teleport at will, he kept teleporting into secure areas (AI room, warden room, etc...), noone wanted to do anything about it.

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some rounds followed that were similar...

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The round that really made clear to me that playign as security might be not worth it at all:

Clown had a item that opened all doors. Haley Yorsh and Scarlett seemly had telekinesis or something. The trio kept trying to annoy me all the time, for example clown kept opening all doors of the brig, Hailey offered to give me food (so I owuldn't leave station) only if I gave her a firing pin, etc... none of the three were antagonists.

HoS (Urii something... ) asked me to arrest clown, after the clown threatened to step up his efforts after HoS took his door opening gadget. I spent all my non-lethal ammo doing so, had a shotgun on me because HoS told me to take the shotgun (I usually never take letahl weapons with me) and shotgun spawns with lethal ammo. When I get back and put clown in brig, HoS was interrogating Haley and Scarlett that were both arrested for their brig shenanigans, they both escape and start fighting the HoS, I know they are MUCH better at robusting than I am, last time I had a melee fight with Haley she used tons of moves I have no idea how to do, like insta-grabbing and slipping me and so on. So I chase them around, and then resort to only weapon I had still charged (in that station only chargers I saw were inside warden room, so bad idea go there with escapees), was the shotgun, so I fire until I hit ONCE, one of them, stopping the fight, and then that person is dragged to medical and quickly healed.

Of course got IC berated, that was expected... What I didn't expected was then spend 30 mintues arguing with admin over it too. And even then the trio later STILL WENT BACK to cause trouble, somehow they got inside the brig airlock again, and then Haley was carrying a window, later I saw that they pulled window from a cell.

So... seriously, I try to play it right, follow the station regulations, etc... instead old players and admins tell me is "just memes", to "pull the stunstick out of my ass" and so on, and when I had a IC reason to fight seriously, I get chewed out by admins OOC, even got told to not play as warden again.

[Zeldazackman]

Is this a complaint about admins in general, admins on at the time of the round, admins for the main server vs rp server?
It's kinda up in the air as to the interpretation on this.

And some more information about this would go a bit of a longer way.

[Altheor]

Is this a complaint about admins in general, admins on at the time of the round, admins for the main server vs rp server?
It's kinda up in the air as to the interpretation on this.

And some more information about this would go a bit of a longer way.

All this happened on main server. Dunno about RP.

And I don't know who played each character, but heard Viola and Mekhi are both admins.

The other players involved were either veterans, or possibly admins too, if not admins, they are personal friends of the admins.

[Fractious]

Hi Altheor, it seems you got angry at my way of playing HoS. That sure makes me dissappointed, as I only try to be a good sec without being a shitcurity.

But honestly, I think your first part about me lacks detail and context and you just jumped to conclusions way too fast without even knowing the full stories.

Let me explain to you all of my actions and why I did them.

Viola started shooting some guy, that was shooting her back in the brig, so I went out to help, he stole my stunbaton and stunned me, after some chasing I arrested him, Viola came and said: "Oh, no need to arrest him, it was just memes." And released him. He then immediately after being released, stole my stunbaton again (I wasn't even fighting him anymore), and stunned me again. Viola laughed and let him go.

That part was with me and Sanax, me and him have a gimmick about headpatting and I shot a warning disabler shot to bully him. You then went to arrest him immediately, I believe this was in good faith from you. You could'ave asked me why I shot him first, or I could'ave told you to not arrest him, but I didn't knew you'd go to arrest him for a joke. If it wasn't a joke you could'ave expected me to run after him after my first disabler shot, which I didn't. You then tried to arrest him and I saw you with him cuffed. Note that I never saw him take your baton or anything, I only saw you with him cuffed. So I'm like "Why... did they arrested Sanax for a joke?", so I released him. He then batonned you and dropped it before running away, which I allowed since he was probably pissed of being arrested for a joke. And I didn't even laughed at the scene, I don't know where you're getting this from. 

Clown was syndicate, started to emag everything, Viola offered her gasmask to clown to emag. Later clown kept breaking into brig to try to provoke me, for exmaple turning on and off the energy sword non-stop in front of warden's door, within sight of Viola and Mekhi, and they did nothing to stop it.

I asked him to emag my mask to make sure he an emag, to begin with. And I decided to not arrest him since he was being funny and helped me. He even helped me to kill a ling with his sword. He also didn't broke into the bridge, I pulled him in the brig since he was using his chameleon projector to turn into the nuke disk, so I'd pull him around to station to make people confused, which was funny. He never harmed anyone, nor emagged something I didn't asked him to. You're basically pointing at me for not arresting someone who helped me, which I refuse to do, unless they harm my crew. Note that the clown got lynched at the end of the round, and I didn't helped him either.

Viola and Mekhi spent a good part of the round in science doing who knows what while lots of trouble was going on, including people ending dead, and kept ignoring me calling for them on security channel.

I don't know what makes you say that, probably the part in Xenobiology where Lilly showed us her gamebreaking bug, I assume? Well I was trying to secure the disk and Lilly made it dissapear via a bug, so I kinda didn't wanted to leave until I'd get it back. You should also note that me and Mekhi both killing a ling each, in that round, so I don't understand why you're saying we didn't do anything.

Later when an antag was caught, Mekhi that put the antag in permabrig, and no procedures were followed at all, not even telling me there was someone in the brig in first place.

It was me who jailed Valeria, actually. And I didn't had to do any procedure since she was a comfirmed EoC. I assumed you knew she was in perma, but I guess you didn't knew it? Sorry about that, that's a miscommunication issue there, to be fair.

After things got hairy (multiple peopel arrested, antags acting, etc...) many civilians broke into the brig (for example one guy dragged a piano to the security area and started to play non-stop), clown started to do "pranks" using his syndicate items, etc... Viola kept repeating it was "memes" didn't let me do anything about it.

I have no idea what you're talking about here, I don't even recall seeing a piano in my brig, buddy. And the clown was still just hiding as the nuke disk. I never said that it was "memes" a single time, as far as I know. So if you could please add more details, that would be appreciated.

I won't address the rest of your complaint, as it doesn't imply me, but that was the explanations of all my actions during that round.

[Altheor]

As for the shooting each other, how I am supposed to know it was a joke? Also he during my attempts to arrest him was already fighting back, you saw him after I succeeded. then when you said it was "for memes" and started to release him, I said ok then. He attacking me again was unecessary, and I did complained sevearl times about it, resulting in mekhi then telling me to pull stunstick out of my ass.

You pulling a antag with you into secure area... you think is good idea as HoS?

Yeah, the xenobiology thing, I undersand then. Indeed fixing gamebreaking bug is more important than IC issues, I can agree iwth that.

Yes, Valeria went to permabrig and I had to go there personally check it, I asked multiple times on comms and got no reply.

There was a guy playing piano there for a while, along lots of other random people, then with the traffic of you and Mekhi (more Mekhi) just waltzing in into the armoury and doing things wihtout explanation, random arrests (like Julio Steele), arming people, etc... it was all overhwelming, impossible to track what was going on. I personally felt like Warden in that round was absolutely useless, a role worse than assistant, at least assistant go go around do stuff, I was stuck there being completely ignored except by the people that wanted to annoy me (like the piano guy, forgot his name). Whenver people needed the amroury they just walked in or asked you or Mekhi to give them what htey wanted. And prisioners were all also managed compeltely by other people.

[Nik707]

I honestly think it's entirely too common for admins to allow certain behavior from certain people they life, and it's pretty damaging to the image. There are plenty of people who I won't name because I don't want to start a flame war, that admins allow to get away with really stupid shit because 'it's funny' or 'it's a meme' etc. Some of them are even actively rewarded for it, and it's honestly gotten to a point where rules can be broken and crossed if you do it in a funny enough way or if the admin who notices it likes you enough. We've got one too many people who are well known to be self-antagging shitters, but when brought up are met with replies of 'but they're funny' and it's actually just annoying at this point. A few jokes here and there are cool and all, but when certain people are literally known for their borderline rulebreaking and their apparent immunity to certain rules, it's a problem.

[kevinz000]

alright from a first glance a lot of the things described I do not know much about but otherwise in a lot of ways you are just plain out wrong i'll post after i'm done reading tg election popcorn-worthy drama

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After ending randomly assigned to warden, I found it interesting and started playing more as warden.

But there was a couple rounds where I was absolutely miserable playing as warden, and there was something in common in all those rounds: admins or very old players, interesting in "memeing" whatever that is.


Examples:

Viola was Head of Security, Mekhi was Head of Science and acting Captain.

Viola started shooting some guy, that was shooting her back in the brig, so I went out to help, he stole my stunbaton and stunned me, after some chasing I arrested him, Viola came and said: "Oh, no need to arrest him, it was just memes." And released him. He then immediately after being released, stole my stunbaton again (I wasn't even fighting him anymore), and stunned me again. Viola laughed and let him go.
I was not there for this but I trust the HoS's judgement most of the time in round unless I have good reason to not
Clown was syndicate, started to emag everything, Viola offered her gasmask to clown to emag. Later clown kept breaking into brig to try to provoke me, for exmaple turning on and off the energy sword non-stop in front of warden's door, within sight of Viola and Mekhi, and they did nothing to stop it.
Everyone knows my stance on "non-hostile/violent" antagonists which is going to stay at "I will not go over security's head to valid them and I might even give them a semi-pardon until they start being bad".  This is not a dick move to you. If you're too offended at an esword sound I don't know what to say, although I might have told them to move out of the brig and do it somewhere else if I actually saw it, as I did not actually see that. If you really want people like that valided to the ground when in reality they're just a minor annoyance and just spicing the round up without too much detriment to anyone else like murdering or destruction I recommend rolling captain with all the responsibilities that entails, because I stand by my usual treatment of antagonists at the moment.
Viola and Mekhi spent a good part of the round in science doing who knows what while lots of trouble was going on, including people ending dead, and kept ignoring me calling for them on security channel.
Viola was not with me in science for the majority of the round. Also, amazing the RD is doing science, eh? Might I remind you I also called out a ling giving the bad succ in sec maint and you still decided to not pay attention/even know where that is? Not even my job to validhunt for you even if I'm acting captain if there's security.
Later when an antag was caught, Mekhi that put the antag in permabrig, and no procedures were followed at all, not even telling me there was someone in the brig in first place.
Viola did, and the AI and us all were talking about it over security channels. If you did not pay attention I'm sorry. I did also not find them to be enough of a threat for me to intervene directly when the HoS already had it covered after they were arrested, and I even landed the final taser shot when we were fighting them.
Whenever Mekhi wanted a weapon, he walked inside the armoury, while carrying Haley Yorsh on his back. Also gave weapons to her, she was scientist (not security)
I did not give them weapons, pay attention.  I took two firing pins for two lathed AEGs. Yes, they were on my back, but I'm 99% sure if they tried to do something I'd be able to stop them without difficulty. If I couldn't I'd leave them outside. They can't do anything while piggybacking as it takes both your hands. Not going to argue this is bad procedure but it's me being lazy and just like with genetics "I'll believe it when I start fucking up."
Later on they arrested Julio Steele, refused to tell me why.
I stunned that guy once in the round, please clarify who "they" is. I never cuffed either of the pair or brought them to the brig. Also, that's the guy who was constantly fighting other people, and I don't recall hearing you ask but not hearing you ask might be my fault as my chat was quite occupied by certain things that tend to be spammy. Since no one died I didn't feel the need to care and to let security take care of it.
After things got hairy (multiple peopel arrested, antags acting, etc...) many civilians broke into the brig (for example one guy dragged a piano to the security area and started to play non-stop), clown started to do "pranks" using his syndicate items, etc... Viola kept repeating it was "memes" didn't let me do anything about it.
I'm not aware of this for the "multiple people" as I was busy with other things but the my stance on the clown is already said. 
On that same round, seemly admins (judging by the character claiming he "prayed" for it), gave Angelo the power to teleport at will, he kept teleporting into secure areas (AI room, warden room, etc...), noone wanted to do anything about it.
See my stance on non hostile antagonists. Also, I saved that guy from a changeling later.
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some rounds followed that were similar...

----

The round that really made clear to me that playign as security might be not worth it at all:

Clown had a item that opened all doors. Haley Yorsh and Scarlett seemly had telekinesis or something. The trio kept trying to annoy me all the time, for example clown kept opening all doors of the brig, Hailey offered to give me food (so I owuldn't leave station) only if I gave her a firing pin, etc... none of the three were antagonists.
Clown pranked once and HoS took them in. Science had telekenetics because I left the buffers saved for heads and science. The clown opened it once and then got cuffed, I do not think it was their actions the other few times, but I don't know for sure as I did not closely inspect the circuit.
Being offered to give you food for a firing pin is not something I would consider an antagonistic action

HoS (Urii something... ) asked me to arrest clown, after the clown threatened to step up his efforts after HoS took his door opening gadget. I spent all my non-lethal ammo doing so, had a shotgun on me because HoS told me to take the shotgun (I usually never take letahl weapons with me) and shotgun spawns with lethal ammo. When I get back and put clown in brig, HoS was interrogating Haley and Scarlett that were both arrested for their brig shenanigans, they both escape and start fighting the HoS, I know they are MUCH better at robusting than I am, last time I had a melee fight with Haley she used tons of moves I have no idea how to do, like insta-grabbing and slipping me and so on. So I chase them around, and then resort to only weapon I had still charged (in that station only chargers I saw were inside warden room, so bad idea go there with escapees), was the shotgun, so I fire until I hit ONCE, one of them, stopping the fight, and then that person is dragged to medical and quickly healed.
The logs showed they pushed down the HoS a SINGLE TIME. That, is not reason for a shotgun. Just recharge. Also, you even had your shotgun drawn when the doors were being memed while the clown was cuffed and you kept yelling stop doing it. Also, this round I was basically not involved in any of this in game, as I gave captainship to the HoS and all I did that may even indirectly relate to them was say I would give the clown a circuitry implant (that I never did) and unlock all the nodes for nanites (as is my job).  You could easily of recharged weapons to stun them. The HoS was in no real danger and really what did the three even do in the round other than maybe (didn't check) take out a single window from a cell? Just stun them. If you know the shotgun spawns with lethal ammo you should have switched to rubbershot if prisoners are attacking the HoS. There was no pressing need to down them on the spot with no delay so I find the buckshot use to be ridiculous. As for if they broke in after you got berated and bwoinked, I'm not sure because I was not actively observing before or after and just had attack and say logs, and what I saw was they got uncuffed and pushed the HoS over. Big deal.

Of course got IC berated, that was expected... What I didn't expected was then spend 30 mintues arguing with admin over it too. And even then the trio later STILL WENT BACK to cause trouble, somehow they got inside the brig airlock again, and then Haley was carrying a window, later I saw that they pulled window from a cell.
I can nearly promise you it didn't take 30 minutes. I was not aware of the later shennanigans but I did see a cell window missing and didn't care much because I had no idea it was happening. No one told me afterwards.

So... seriously, I try to play it right, follow the station regulations, etc... instead old players and admins tell me is "just memes", to "pull the stunstick out of my ass" and so on, and when I had a IC reason to fight seriously, I get chewed out by admins OOC, even got told to not play as warden again.
I /recommended/ to you it's better to play as regular officer until you're more experienced with the role. Not to never play warden. AS for the other rounds, purely IC issues. I take certain things far less seriously ICly when I don't see a good reason to. See, clowns meming with a chameleon projector and an emag (the only things remotely dangerous they emagged were chem dispensers and cargo consoles, and the station was not exactly under threat at the time). We did our jobs as HoS and RD/acting captain. Furthurmore about the IC things, another round I went out of my way to dunk an antag trying to plasma flood while HoS was acting captain when I was RD, which isn't even my job but I felt like it needed doing due to the severity of a plasma flood. You kept calling me USELESS because I decided to do toxins and science instead of set up power. You don't even understand that it is not my job as RD to do engineering's job any more than everyone else when I already have a department to manage and had two people I was teaching toxins to. You take the game too seriously and get upset at things that we considered normal because we're experienced enough to know for example that the clown was not a threat. Sure you had IC reason to be offended considering >space law (which I don't take seriously at all and I'll tell anyone this because my methods tend to work better than a guideline made on /tg/ station, land of greytiding half the time, which I play a lot and derive my security playing from with adaptations for the MedRP environment), and SoP (which I take even less seriously and I'll also tell anyone this because I generally do not fuck up hard enough with security issues and I tend to do their jobs half the time which is actually more or less overly validhunting but we can leave that for sometime else), however I do not find IC reason because after playing the game this long I realized that there's better things to do with my round than have people who aren't detrimental at large get brigged under my command. If you want to take it so seriously play HoS or captain and order everyone having fun brigged and see how well it fares, it might work, it might not, who knows.

So the only thing I took out of this complaint is the other round, to probably keep Hailey on a closer leash but at the moment what I saw was an issue was how you play warden.
Scarlett isn't even a known greytider, and the clown was just pranking you.
As for everything else I frankly think it is entirely an IC issue and that we are not playing the game in a bad way and you are just taking it too seriously.

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Oh yeah, and Viola dunked the ling who was absorbing the chaplain the first described round and I dunked the ling who was absorbing someone in the dorms bathrooms after you reported someone dying in there.
So no, we did not ignore everything.

[Altheor]

The round I IC, called you useless (I assume you are Mekhi), is because station was completely out of power, and there was ZERO engineers.

Of course, is not the research director job to fix power,  but much less the job of the warden. While you were back doing bombs, brig ran out of power completely, and I had to run around the station trying to scrap engineering tools to attempt to setup solars.

AI then made a mistake, player not knowing the emitters needed power, and turned engine on before I turned on solars, causing the tesla loose incident.

so the reason why I kept IC, calling oyu useless, is because instead of helping save the station, you kept fooling around until station had loose Tesla, when you were one of the  few persons that could have saved the station due to having more access as head and knowing how to setup solars in first place. The other players you wanted to do it, basically couldn't, I knew how to do it but I was warden, that is not even supposed to leave the brig, and warden has very little access.... Also I must admit as newbie I had no idea where to steal wires from to wire up the solars.

[kevinz000]

setting up solars is not hard. how many of those players do you think knew how to do toxins, which lets us get advanced upgrades to IMPROVE THE STATION LIKE MAKING PERFECTED AUTOCLONING AND UPGRADED SLEEPERS which are vital in a normal round? Yes, I was making bombs because /no one else could/. Fooling around? I'm doing my job and my usual contribution to the station.
I already saved the station when an antag was pumping thousands of moles of burnmix into the station that would have killed a massive part of the station if I didn't take out the pumps and the antag first.
In no way am I obligated to do engine work as the RD. I normally do it but assuming I'm obligated is just wrong. I have other stuff to do too and I was teaching two newbie players how to do toxins so maybe I wouldn't be one of the only people who could that round!
Also yes, I am Mekhi.

[Soulstolen]

Alright, I am Urinsu Miiruz the HoS of the round that involved the Warden using a lethal weapon.

Let me begin to prior events between Hailey and Scarlett and myself.

It was a blue shift (which turned out to be false) and nothing was happening, besides the fact the clown was being a Doormancer and meme’ing around in all good fun. Though they are mentioned in this thread, they do not pertain to the round I was involved in. Scarlett was unscrewing windows on the brig (one window but did it two or three times) and I was chasing her and Hailey around for all good fun. That is until one of them slipped me while I had my gun out (The HoS’ gun that is) and started to fire at me with it. At this point I took it seriously cause it WAS still a blue shift. I brought Scarlett in the one who took the gun and brought them up to interrogation. At this point I was talking to her and kinda trying to come to an understanding on why that wasn’t really a good idea, though she kept falling asleep the entire time and messing around. Hailey came by and using her Xray Telekinetic powers all of Science had, she was tossing things around and at me and the table. Since I planned on bringing her in anways, I got out and disabler beamed her, and brought her in. They both continued to meme so I played bad cop, pulled the tape out the recorder and gave Hailey the blinding flash of police brutality. Afterwards of just not getting anywhere I decided, “Why am I still keeping you both here.” And let Scarlett go and Hailey. Scarlett was out the brig doors and Hailey was out of her cuffs but then pointed at the door which led back into interrogation. I opened, assuming I forgot to give them their stuff back. (Quick note, I could have brigged them for multiple things, but why waste peoples time, just told them to leave and go fuck around somewhere else.) After I walked in the room, I began to type asking what she needed. After that, she tabled me onto a glass table mind you, so I was down for a good moment. Hailey then bolted out the door and ran circles around the warden. (not sure if she did any disarming, but it was rather threatening to the newbie Warden) So he pulled out the only gun he had which was a lethally loaded shotgun, and shot her once, knocking her down, mind you it was point blank so it did alot of damage. Though I quickly patched her up in brigbay. (Another note, I am not sure if he had his belt on him with pepperspray or a flash, granted he was new I assume he didn’t know how to use them anyways.) I then grabbed the Warden, cuffed him, and was about to fire him for that, becuase regardless of OOC not knowing things, IC’ly it was still an issue. HOWEVER. Big note here, Hailey Yorsh, the one the Warden shot, said specifically not to fire the Warden and that it was okay. Right then and there the issue was resolved between the two parties. I however wanted to talk to him and advise him better. Though couldn’t as he was AFK for 30 minutes, soon I learned it was becuase of an admin.

If I left anything out it’s due to bad recollection, all in all, everyone was okay, clown, me, Hailey, Scarlett, and even the Warden. We all went back to out duties, the issue IC’ly was resolved and I planned on coaching the Warden (he’s new, I can’t blame him, we all make mistakes.) After reading a bit on this and in discord, I find out he was gone for thirty minutes cause of an admin. Personally, this was a major annoyance, how can you teach someone the game if they are getting toldz Also, if it’s true that the admin was saying the things that Altheor stated, (that being to just not play security) Sounds very unproductive and rude, admins should be there to help, not to be a god judging from above. Telling someone not to play security also is just baffling, as a sec main it’s hard to find bodies to help out, and the fact he put effort in, though sure it was not the best, is still appreciated.

All in all, my problem is the fact admin intervention was a thing when it was solved IC’ly. That I wasn’t able to train my Warden on his tools because of 30 minutes of intervention. It’s kind of upsetting actually, and I don’t want an admin to be the one who pushes people away to play roles.