Admin Complaint - CawingCrow

[CatgirlEnthusiast]

BYOND Name of complaint against: CawingCrow

Your BYOND name: Alexch2

Date of issue and round ID: 2018-12-30, 15768

Reason for complaint: Increasing a ban seven-fold because of their own lack of knowledge of the game


Six days after christmas eve, I'm happily playing my 2D spacemen and participating in the round. It's pretty slow and unremarkable, until I hear a rumor. Someone's claiming that if you put two bags of holding together, it'll gib you before spawning the teleporty-white-hole-thingy. Since as far as I knew, unaware of the relatively recent change, I set out to prove them wrong. I pocketed a space suit, went out through the escape airlocks, and put the bags together. Turns out it really does gib you nowadays. Wack. It's a little close to the station, so I end up taking out one or two tiles of escape. Nevertheless, it leaves the airlocks and windows intact, so no biggie. The shuttle's just gonna replace the tiles when it lands, anyway. Not too surprisingly, I get bwoinked, and end up eating a 480 minute ban. Fair enough, really.

Some of the admin messages are a little incorrect saying it's gonna break the shuttle (

Especially as a non-antagonist. Well, first of all. You ask an admin, before you decide to BoH ANYTHING. Secondly, you fucked up the escape shuttle with it.

) And calling it idiocy, which is a pretty hostile tone, but not exactly wrong.

Anyway, I eat the ban. I feel that it's a little excessive for only affecting four or six tiles of escape, but not worth arguing over. I head off and play other vidya gaems and enjoy the beautiful rainy weather of December, and try to reconnect once my 480 minutes are up only to discover that it's been lengthened to 3420 minutes instead.

BoH bombed the escape shuttle docking place as a non-antagonist. Didn't killed one, yet made enough mess for me to clean up. Don't do it again, or there will be more consequences.

(Edit) It actually killed a couple of people and not even admins were able to fix it.

Okay, what the h*ecking frick. To fix the six or so escape tiles that were affected, anyone would literally just have to grab six rods and floor tiles. It'd take seconds to fix, and that includes getting the materials. You put down a rod. You put a floor tile on it for plating. Bam, you're done. They're not exactly stealthy, either. They're big, glowing white pits. Anyhow, I ask someone who was observing the round what happened.

i don't know about anything achat but as far as i know they asked kev for what to do and they adminfilled it which seemed to work but then when someone went out to fix it with rods and floor tiles, placing rods made the chasm effect come back until floor tiles were placed on top of it, and I didn't see exactly what happened (since i was watching blackmajor getting dunked on) but when i came back there was a like 16x16 area of just floor tiles outside departures

er, not floor tiles, plating

it was in an area that was bigger than the BoH bomb tear

So, from the way it looks it seems like they had no idea how to fix the issue, (or, God forbid, just letting the engineers take a few moments to handle it instead of using admin intervention to fix something so minor) they instead tried to fix it with admin tools, screwed it up far worse than it was originally, and then people ended up falling through the glitchy mess that they created, and blamed me for their deaths afterwards. Lovely. The ban message even makes it look like they extended it out of spite because they had no idea how to fix it.

If I've got this right, that's a pretty big yikes.

[kfive]

"Not even admins were able to fix it."

That says more about the admins than the players. Me and a drone once BoH bombed escape and it was fixed in like ten seconds by pooj. The drone, having been a nonantag, also ate a ban for it. Edit: This was before boh bombs were big booms instead of ALL HAIL LORD SINGULOTH, but there was definitely damage.

That having been said, the 480 minute ban is a bit excessive by my reckoning if you went off into space to test it and only a few tiles were damaged, but I recommend using a different z-level if you ever want to do something like that again. Having not seen the logs, I can't say what damage actually occurred.

That having been said. Shit like this causes the equivalent of a LOOK AT ME SOMETHING BIG HAPPENED message to appear on mins' screens. If you're gonna do it, ahelp ahead of time.

[CawingCrow]

I definitely agree, that it would have been a "little excessive”, if I had you banned for BoH bombing four to six tiles. But that's not the case. While I had to remind you not to BoH bomb, people tried to fix your "experiment" and got eaten up by your lack of common sense. (What is mentorhelp, what is ahelp. You could have just asked, if that rumor is true or not, instead of creating a hazard for the whole station.) They simply died because of you.

And yes, we were able to clean up your mess, but the casualties already happened by then. I had to spawn myself into the game with an RCD, while the crew was evacuating with aliens on the ship. Not forgetting, that it was a Traitor+ling round, where potentially Antagonists could have jetpacked into your created void.

[Tekoro]

BoH bombs gibbing people has been a thing for like 1-2 years ago, just saying
If you wanted to prove someone wrong shoulda maybe used a safer way to do it ya know, not in the public server, dunno, boot up a side private server.
Also @CawingCrow why need to spawn yourself in, is Build mode not a thing anymore? Less than 5 clicks and everything's fixed.
Also, while it is true that the BoH might've caused casualties, them running into the fucking Black hole of death is not the guy's fault; yes, they died cause of him, but people coulda just been running into it cuz it's fun. Or cuz theys dumbasses. If they died on BoH trigger, that's another thing, but if they just run into it, can't really blame the guy who triggered the BoH either. (I still do agree that *if* no BoH bomb then no deaths, but I hope you know what I mean)
Also honestly 480 minutes ban is a really low time for a BoH bombing that caused deaths, was I admin I'd agree with lengthening it a bit more too.
Next thing you know you have people BoH bombing and claiming it mistakes/didn't know just to get a 480 minute ban. No, BoH bombing as a nonantag is bad, end of story. No matter who you kill or what. If you aren't doing it in Z level fuckknowswhere (even there someone might just jetpack into it keep in mind) don't do it at all, unless you're an antag with the correct reasons to trigger one.

Is 3420 excessive? Honestly, depends on your record and notes. Is it excessive though? Some things should not be done and that's it. Which is why some things will win you long amounts of time even if your record's clean and whatnot. As I already said, I feel like BoH bombing without reason as nonantag, is one of them.
Sorry if anything I said sounds grammatically incorrect or stuff, just wanted to give my quick opinion in the smallest amount of time possible.

[Sylas]

The double jeopardy is real and completely unecessary. You dont just double up on something someone was punished for already.
Frankly, a note would have sufficed, period, as they actually went out of their way to avoid damaging the station.

And a BoH rift is supposed to be 7x7, right?

They shouldnt have been banned at all, because I actually expected the shuttle to have replaced the tiles when reading the explanation, and only thought otherwise when deaths were mentioned.

You dont punish someone further after the fact because ***you*** made an oversight. Thats just unreasonable.

[Nik707]

I'm very much inclined to agree with Jade on this one. I'm also of the opinion that admins shouldn't be fixing things like this. If the players can't figure out how to fix someone else's fuckup, that's part of the round.

[Tekoro]

If someone pops out a singularity because of no reason admins should not deal with it? Uh.
If players don't know how to fix it, it's part of the round? What happens if they know how to fix it? They intervene then? Don't understand what you mean there
What's wrong with changing the length of a ban after reviewing more evidence? Nothing wrong with that. If someone is sent to jail for theft and then evidence comes up that they murdered people, they don't just give the guy the theft charge and let him go. Obviously, this is an entirely different case, but the logic applies, don't you think? Ban of 480 was for BoH bombing, which is a very very generous ban in my opinion, people get banned for more time for less heavy rulebreaks, then it comes up they killed people with that non-antag, non-justifiable BoH bomb, broke a bit of the stantion even tho personally who cares you can repair that shit
Keep in mind that you can't repair: the guy that got singo'd if they had no scan, their gear

[geemiesif]

People get permabanned for boh bombing even if it was 'to test a rumor' come on ive heard better excuses for this, and arguing the amount of tiles to be fixed is petty. Bans can be edited after being applied lets not pretend that its double jeopardy if we can reduce after reviewing evidence , we can extend as needed as well. Lets not go and try to crucify people on this. Boh bombing is a bad thing no matter the excuse as non antag tbh.

[Ragolution]

As with Tekoro, I'm kind of stunned that you guys don't know how to use build mode. Also at the tone of this complaint and the hostile rapport between GAs. The punishment wasn't what was really 'bad' here. Honestly, the punishment fits the crime, but it seems like the GA team could use a bit more training or at least try to play with their toys a little more.

If someone does something against the rules and it interferes with the round, admins should attempt to fix it... because otherwise what was the point of making that a rule, anyway? There's some things that aren't really worth fixing- BoH annihilating 50% of the station is a great example, but if it's a quick and easy fix like "six tiles", it should be something readily amended.

[CawingCrow]

Also @CawingCrow why need to spawn yourself in, is Build mode not a thing anymore? Less than 5 clicks and everything's fixed.

It's not like I haven't tried it. It didn't worked, the void never got overridden by the new block I placed. Even Kevin couldn't figure it out, therefore I decided to do it manually.

Also, while it is true that the BoH might've caused casualties, them running into the fucking Black hole of death is not the guy's fault; yes, they died cause of him, but people coulda just been running into it cuz it's fun. Or cuz theys dumbasses. If they died on BoH trigger, that's another thing, but if they just run into it, can't really blame the guy who triggered the BoH either.

Pic related: https://imgur.com/a/Gibxw43 That area was a death trap and blocked the path to the escape shuttle. Those, who tried to place a tile, got pushed into the chasm. Don't forget that the crew was under evacuation and aliens, lings and traitors were present. The people, who tried to fix it, were those, who died.

The double jeopardy is real and completely unecessary. You dont just double up on something someone was punished for already.

There have been a number of cases, where we adjusted ban lengths depending on outcomes/things happening outside the round. This is really nothing new, lol.

And a BoH rift is supposed to be 7x7, right?

And? BoH bombing is still BoH bombing.

They shouldnt have been banned at all, because I actually expected the shuttle to have replaced the tiles when reading the explanation, and only thought otherwise when deaths were mentioned.

I disagree. They had two very recent bans and they always could have asked the admins, but they decided not to. People did died from the void, after I banned them.

You dont punish someone further after the fact because ***you*** made an oversight. Thats just unreasonable.

It's not an oversight, because then I wouldn't have edited and lengthen the ban :^)

I'm kind of stunned that you guys don't know how to use build mode.

It’s not the fact, that we don’t know how to use it. Kevin knew what he was doing, but the problem was, that it did not override the chasm effect.