On the topic of Justice

[kfive]

Now then, while I agree that my IC in OOC might be a problem on occasion, there are some things which I will disagree with a lot more.

This, I guess, should also double as a Ban Appeal request, as well as a complaint against the state of the moderation. I'd post it in the Appeals forum, but it's only divided into Denied and Approved, which means I really don't know if I'd like to put it there. Furthermore, this is a complaint against the state of the moderation itself, not just an appeal, so I don't want to put it under just that umbrella.

I'll post screenshots and a dump of my Dream Seeker log below, but for the sake of brevity, I'll also leave an explanation in here.

I was playing as Captain Solomon Midas (as opposed to my regular Captain, Dane Gustavia). Unlike Dane, who has a direct approach to any situation which doesn't involve Combat, Solomon is the sort of character who would dress himself up in assistant garb and grant himself an ID titled Assistant, for the purposes of remaining incognito and blending in. Now it just so happened that that shift, to progress a wildly convoluted story which I cannot describe without giving away a few character secrets, I joined with Solomon as Captain, rather than Assistant, to put that exact plan in motion. All Captain equipment was stored in his satchel (in case it was ever needed) and his PDA was re-titled. The Cap's Bowman and Medal were kept as part of the outfit, in case there was ever a contest.

Then comes the contest. At that time, it just so happened an Allisandra was breaking into my office, and was just leaving with captain equipment when Solomon sat himself down in the office chair. Solomon batonned said invader into submission and called for security, who had previously been visited by Solomon. Security, upon arriving at the Captain's office, were confused by the state of things, as both characters were listed as Captain in the crew manifest, Allisandra having somehow acquired said access on her green ID card. For about 5 minutes both of us were cuffed by security while I was explaining my legitimacy, and the lack thereof Allisandra possessed.

*pwoink*
http://puu.sh/m1Rpz/5decf938f4.png
http://puu.sh/m1RsA/d1cf55ceb4.png

After the scene is over, still dressed in assistant garb, I take a roundabout path to the dorms to drop my assistant jumpsuit, when I'm met with a wall, I forget where, but somewhere between the dorms and the sec hallway, I think it was midway between dorms doors and the courtroom. I go around to eng and pull out an RPD and leave-

*pwoink*

http://puu.sh/m1RG4/f925c39c85.png

Once the walls are gone, I fix up my uniform and go back to normal. About 3-4 minutes later, while patrolling the central primary hallway...

*beep*
http://puu.sh/m1PQJ/31e809ded8.png

I got no response, so I decided to publish the circumstances to have more than just myself and the admins commenting on it, and suddenly, as though ashamed:

*boom*
http://puu.sh/m1RQA/05c380d1a9.png

Given this, I am not only contesting the ban and its related tickets, but also the state of the moderation on this server. If the jobban were just, then there should have been no issue with me publicizing the logs of said jobban.

Thank you,
-k5

----------

DreamSeeker copypaste, beginning with the aftermath of Boss Pigman killing himself in front of sec, which proves that I did show my presence to security:
http://pastebin.com/hbnKsBP2

Edit: Having read the top few lines once again, turns out that it was actually a few minutes later when the log begins, where Leigh starts chainsawing Pigman. I also got another version of the log, so here:
http://puu.sh/m1T5G/7fb98ea7d5.htm

[Jay]

Moved to appropriate forum.

[Zalvine]

Well, going to keep this brief. While the ban is applicable, it's because captain should not be 'incognito' at all. That is the exact opposite of what a captain should be doing. It flies in the face of it, without exceptionally good reason. Usually reserved to very specific round types. (Rev, for example, where it'd be wise not to have a target on your back.)

That said, the listed bans are for a week and not subjected to appeal. The job ban initially was perma, and was done by mistake. This has been amended.

[kfive]

While I'm at it, one last thing:

Why all the heads? This is a problem that specifically applies to that character in that role, for the duration of that shift.

And why'd poojawa fly off the handle for having it published?

-k5

[Leon_Leonardo]

We all agree that it's time for you to take a break; if you want to play as an assistant so badly, do so.

[kfive]

Haven't you noticed me doing that? Solomon was Captain that shift to advance a long agenda of mine which has been moving forward for nearly a month and a half now, not to play all-access assistant. Sadly, the incident with the Captain's office being broken in upturned my whole shift plan.

As for the take a break thing, please don't use euphemisms. I'd rather you say what you have to say, so I can argue the point, rather than simplifying it so that if I try to argue one way, it's possible to claim another interpretation of the words and render my words irrelevant.

-k5

[Cameron653]

Just going to drop by this and say that the ban reason was invalid.

"We've had enough of your shit" is completely unprofessional and should be avoided, and it is not a valid job-ban reason, as there is no rule in that says you can be banned because someone "has had enough of your shit" . A valid ban reason would list all the rules the banning admin(s) thought were broken. According to the banning admin(s), they just did not like this player and, as a result, banned them because they "have had enough of them".

Also, the "reason" for the one week ban is quite bad. There is no rule that states that you can't "bring unneeded information into OOC". And  a player shouldn't be banned for being "toxic" without being given a valid reason, as they won't be able to improve their "toxicity" if you do not explain to them how they are "toxic".

[TalkingCactus]

Just going to drop by this and say that the ban reason was invalid.

"We've had enough of your shit" is completely unprofessional and should be avoided, and it is not a valid job-ban reason, as there is no rule in that says you can be banned because someone "has had enough of your shit" . A valid ban reason would list all the rules the banning admin(s) thought were broken. According to the banning admin(s), they just did not like this player and, as a result, banned them because they "have had enough of them".

Also, the "reason" for the one week ban is quite bad. There is no rule that states that you can't "bring unneeded information into OOC". And  a player shouldn't be banned for being "toxic" without being given a valid reason, as they won't be able to improve their "toxicity" if you do not explain to them how they are "toxic".

The reasons for the jobban are in their notes, not on the actual jobban.

[Cameron653]

The reasons for the jobban are in their notes, not on the actual jobban.

Shouldn't they of been informed of what rules they broke when they were banned, then? Because if they aren't told what rules they broke, you can't possibly expect them to improve. As far as Kfive has been told from the ban reasons, he was banned for bringing an admin PM into OOC, (Which is not explicitly stated to be against the rules anywhere in the rules, and it doesn't fall under rule 2, or rule 7, as adminpms are OOC and do not affect the round in any way, shape, or form, and they weren't being aggressive/lying in the adminhelps.) and as for being "toxic". Kfive still hasn't been informed how they are "toxic", which means that they can't possibly improve their "toxicity" without knowing what they're doing that is "toxic". I'm simply asking that Kfive be informed what he has done wrong, as from what has been stated in this forum, Leon_Leonardo simply thinks that he thinks the ban is valid because "We all agree you should take a break" which is not helpful in the very least, as they don't state anything more than just saying that they simply don't want this player as heads of staff/on the server at all, which is extremely unhelpful. You handled your role as an administrator correctly, as you acted respectfully during the adminhelps. The real problem here is Poojawa, as they were immediately aggressive during the adminhelps, acted very snarky, and immediately job-banning without contacting Kfive, all of which are very unprofessional.

Also, as a side note, I looked up the ban times due to 10 tickets here: http://citadelstation13.4umotion.com/t8 ... ight=rules
The rules on this forum do not state how many tickets = how many days/hours of ban time, but on the old forum they do, and, according to the rules (which seem to be a copy and paste from the old rules), ten tickets is a tier 4 offense, which equates to 2 to 4 days of ban time, while 12 tickets is a 7 to 14 day ban. The ban time should either be removed completely, as Kfive has been banned for at least two days, or shortened to two days due to having already served two of the days of their sentence already.

Edit: I have checked the history of when the ticket ban times were last updated, and according to the logs, it was "last edited by Leon_Leonardo on Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:15 pm", meaning that the ticket times are VERY recent, which supports that Kfive's ban should either be removed or shortened to two days at the maximum.

A screenshot of the rules as of 12/21/2015 11:54 AM, in case the ticket rules are either edited/modified/removed during this case. http://puu.sh/m3Iem/7b4ad00f28.png

[Czyrek]

I think this all comes down to acceptable actions taken at an inappropriate time. I think most people would agree that when you sign up as captain, you are signing up for a command role, to be the highly visible leader of the station. A captain of a warship isn't going to be hiding incognito as a sailor. However, assuming there is a clear threat to the captain, and he has insufficient means to protect himself, subterfuge would be a valid option. I have before as the CMO, when under direct threat, taken the genes and PDA of a co-worker to protect my identity as there were no security staff present and the traitor was heavily armed. However in a situation where you simply start the round with the intention to be a hideaway captain, makes about as much sense as the president pretending to be a janitor on a day to day basis because of the potential of a terrorist attack. What IC reason would a company want to hire you if you acted like that? That being said, I feel that K5 is a pretty decent player, and captain (when playing the role properly) and that his banning punishes not only him, but the rest of the station which really is lacking in competent leadership (or leadership at all, as most people avoid head roles because they are so restrictive of what you can do with your round). 

Those most qualified to be heads, are usually assistants (who invariably know how to hack, set up the engine, do surgery, somehow acquire a satchel full of weapons, and steal the captain's spare key card that can give them all access on slow rounds). I think this server has gotten to the point where people are just so used to seeing people being omni-talented powergamers because of the lack of leadership and AI (or even rounds without a single engineer or security), that its pretty much become the norm amongst the veteran players. So I think it is really up to the Admins to help guide the culture of the sever, especially with veteran players. I'm not saying for such people to be given a get out of jail free card, but I think people who have been around a long time have alot more invested in their play time than random griefers, and so would be more open to correcting their gameplay, if approached correctly.  Slapping on multiday long bans when one becomes "tired of your shit" seems to be rather more of an emotional response than a rational punishment. One could have (maybe not so) simply stated:

 "We as admins do not feel that is the appropriate behavior of a captain and while it may not be in the written rules, we do feel that it is not in keeping with the spirit of the rules when it comes to being a captain. If you continue to act this way we will unfortunately have to ban you from command roles. We understand that everyone has a different way of interpreting these rules and tries to make creative character concepts that abide by them, but as Admins it is our job to ensure that people act in a way that does not negatively impact the game play of others, and unfortunately the role of captain is to give leadership to the crew, a role we have come to the conclusion that you are not fulfilling with your current actions. A captain who is not known as one, would and should be held suspicious after going around as an assistant and then suddenly declaring they are the captain and have the right to command, ICly it just doesn't make sense.